During the first two weeks of July I’m going to be at a conference in the town of Gardone Riviera on the western shore of Lake Garda in northern Italy.
While there I was hoping to take some time away from the conference to do some SOTA activations but discovered that only US Amateur Extra license holders can operate under CEPT in Italy. As a General licensee, I’d apparently need to obtain a reciprocal Italian license to operate there. Unfortunately, by the time I discovered this it was too late to obtain the license.
I wonder if it might be possible to accompany an Italian op on a SOTA activation and operate using his/her call sign with the Italian operator acting as control operator? Are there any Italian SOTA folks who could confirm that this is possible, and/or might be interested in helping a US SOTA operator get on the air in their area?
If so, please contact me via the email on my qrz.com page.
You really need to get the answer from an Italian op to confirm that Mike. But on my (I am not a lawyer) understanding, if your licence isn’t valid for operation standalone under CEPT then it won’t be valid for operation supervised. Certainly that would be the case in the UK. We do have the facility for unlicensed stations to operate under supervision but as I understand it, you have to be part of a recognised training scheme for that to apply.
There is another thing, if you were able to operate under the supervision of another station, then the points accrue to the supervising station and not to you.
Thanks for the input. Your last comment is interesting.
I thought the situation when operating under a control operator’s call might be similar to the situation when multiple operators operate under a single club call. As I understand it, in the club call situation each operator can record his individual QSOs under the club call while receiving credit under his own call. Certainly the data base supports entering QSOs that way. At least it used to.
Really? Does your licence not have clause 3(3)(b) as mine does? It explicitly permits operation by non-UK licence holders, and it says nothing about the level or class of such licence.
I thought the situation when operating under a control operator’s call
might be similar to the situation when multiple operators operate
under a single club call. As I understand it, in the club call
situation each operator can record his individual QSOs under the club
call while receiving credit under his own call. Certainly the data
base supports entering QSOs that way. At least it used to.
It depends how you interpret SOTA rules 3.7.1.1 & 3.7.1.11, in your case I’m not sure. I guess if the ARI licence conditions allows an Italian ham to supervise you, then your activation under his callsign is legitimate. I don’t think the fact that you are being supervised prevents you gaining the points. If my son, an MM6, used my call on an activation, and made 4 qsos, I think he would legitimately get those points.
You really need to find out if you can be supervised by an Italian ham there in Italy, as you can here in the UK.
No Ian, if your son was using your call then he’s under your supervision, and the points would go to you as the supervising operator. No problem in the UK of course, as he could just use his own callsign anyway. The Full licence may be his “carrot” for activating abroad, as it was for my son Jimmy M3EYP-2E0EYP-M0HGY.
The SOTA rules possibly need review and rewrite to make them clearer on this aspect, but the useful thing is that participants have always seemed to follow what was intended over the years!
SOTA Rule 3.7.1.11: Activator points accrue to the operator regardless of the callsign used. The operator must be entitled to use the callsign. Multiple operators of the same station may claim activator points. Eaach individual operator must make the minimum number of QSOs stated above in order to claim activator points.
No mention of supervising operator there, and the word “entitled” becomes crucial. Is an operator “entitled” by virtue of the fact that he is being supervised, or is it only the licence holder that is “entitled”?
Answers carved on a paving slab and delivered by Securicor!
Tom, I didn’t mean to suggest my son was using my call abroad, I was imagining a situation when he’d use it here at home, however silly that would seem.
I do want to pursue this, but it’s not my post and to be honest these circumstances don’t effect me. One last question though, if I use my local club call GM3TKV under entitlement I assume I get the SOTA points for any qualifying activation, but if I’m accompanied by an enthusiatic fellow member (if one joins soon) and he’s a MM6 or 2M0 he’d be out of luck, because he would need to be supervised using the club call. I’m willing to be suprised that this has not happened before over the years.
Your interpretation is aligned with mine Ian. In years gone by I have used the club calls of the ISWL (G4BJC/P and M1SWL/P) and Macclesfield club (G*4MWS/P). It was only because I was a full licence holder myself that I was permitted to operate under these calls under my own supervision away from the club HQs. Activator logs made went into my own Database account. Jimmy, also a member of both organisations, at the time was M3, and so could not activate using these calls.
As an M3 Jimmy would have been the holder of an RAE Pass Certificate
No he wouldn’t. He would have been a holder of an FL Pass Certificate which is not the same thing. The RAE ceased to exist once the 3 tier licence started.
Mike, hopefully this wont be your only trip to Europe. In which case you can now work on getting a fuller licence and then can come and play SOTA over here next time you are over.
There is a surprisingly low amount of activity in Italy, especially when you consider the number and scale of their mountains. In which case you would have been popular on the HF bands, I can’t comment on VHF.
There is a lot wrong with the Italian association summits list, summits locations are inaccurate (kms in error), many summits are not P150, massive numbers of P150 summits are not in the association. Jim and his associates are working hard with some associations to tighten their summit lists. We were vigorous with US and VK new associations to ensure accurate data and it’s only fair to apply the same rules back to Europe.
So come back with fuller licence and you’ll find lots of Europeans keen to take you activating.
“Paper Licence” means a Licence that is issued to the Licensee in paper form by Ofcom;
Really it does. It’s the same on the 2 I have here, the notes are omitted on the Club copy. I’m not sure how that is relevant to our discussions, hence doing a Kryten-Rimmer-Red Dwarf rule misquote.
Hey Mike,
going through the thread didn’t help me to understand if you’re allowed to operate in Italy assisted by an Italian operator. If this is the case, I would suggest you to make a post on the italian Arifidenza site on the QRP section. There are many SOTA operators reading and I’m sure you’ll be able to find someone willing to assist you.
This is the url: http://www.arifidenza.it/forum/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=31
Unfortunately I’m not in Italy otherwise I would be more than happy to make an activation with you.
The rules are not as clear as we would like Gab. But if you don’t have CEPT licence or a reciprocal licence then you cannot claim the points for a SOTA activation in another country.
I’m basing this off of information on operating internationally that I found on the ARRL site. Checking the fine print here:
it seems that since I have a General (not an Extra) license and since Italy does not participate in ECC Recommendation (05)06 apparently I can’t operate in Italy.
