Busy Pendle Hill (plus a mention about CW speeds)

Activation Reports
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Hi all,

It’s been a while since I posted here, on account of having a bit of the autumn/early winter period not doing too much radio stuff.

Since chatting with folk about my HF and VHF set ups on here, I’ve had considerable more success activating various SOTA summits and POTA sites. It’s certainly made activating a lot more interesting and fun!

Today I ascended the steep slopes of Pendle Hill (G/SP-005). I saw there were a couple of alerts before going up but was then presently surprised to see I was one of three people who activated the summit today!

The only issue I had when up there (apart from the wind trying to blow down my mast!) was the speed at which people responded to my ‘CQ SOTA’. My pre-recorded message on my rig was sending at 15WPM and then I would key up to around 17/18WPM once I was in the swing of things. However, a couple chasers responded around 25WPM plus with little spacing between characters. As a novice CW operator this threw me and meant I was asking several times letter by letter for the person’s call. I don’t want to have (too much of) a moan but if people would match the speed of the activator that would be amazing! I can see people have posted about this in the past so sorry to bring it up again.

Anyway, thanks to all the chasers from today!

73,
Luke - M7OPK

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Glad you’re enjoying your activations, Luke. Looks like you had a good number of cw QSOs on 20m - well done!

As you say, it can be a bit frustrating (and brain melting) when callers respond a significantly faster speed to your own. Thankfully it does seem to be the minority of operators who do this.

Nothing wrong with a gentle reminder on this topic!

Best of luck for your future activations!

73, Matthew M0JSB

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Easy solution… send ‘QRS PSE’. But I agree with you that people should match the activator’s speed.

I always match the other op’s speed if I can when I’m activating. On some of my field rigs it isn’t easy to change the speed (original MTR3 comes to mind), so I just leave bigger spaces to slow things down.

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You know, I’ve regularly sent QRS in rag chews or longer forms of QSOs like SKCC but it never crossed my mind to send it as an activatior. I have no idea why. So, thanks for the tip!

Yeah, I do get that some people may not be able to change the speed or it could be fiddly to do it in a radio’s menu or something. The spacing is certainly helpful, though.

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In my experience, “PSE QRS” is counterproductive. The other station doesn’t bother to listen to your request, but hears you replying so believes they are in QSO with you - so plunders on as they were.

Best way is to simply ignore stations that are sending too fast. Because once you’ve sent their callsign back you won’t get rid of them until the contact is complete!

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Hi Luke,

I found it helpful to add a comment to my spot “CW learner QRS or big gaps please”. This seemed to work and steadied my nerve before picking up the key.

You can add “NoRBNHole” to your alert, so that people find you via your spot with your comment.

Kevin, MW0KXN

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I was slow when I did my first activations and also sent a PSE QRS. But then I realised in a pile-up this is quite confusing as any chaser could think it refers to them, especially if they can’t hear the QRQ-station. So what I did was to sent part of the calls which I could copy with a couple of ???'s and worked them, and maybe the QRQ-station would get the message and slow down.But if they were the only one to call, then I would obviosuly sent a PSE QRS because it would be clear who it was meant for. Nowadays I’m a lot faster, and with time you sort of know the call if you hear a QRQ (hi Manuel :wink: et all)

73, Martin PE1EEC

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These CW Macho operators probably can’t read CW at the speed they were sending at. Well done on a very successful CW activation. I would go with the advice from Tom @M1EYP above if you can and try to work others before them and even consider putting the macho guys on a blacklist and not working them at all.

73 Phil G4OBK

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Hardly a novice if you operate at 17/18wpm ! You may confuse people because your CQ message is at 15wpm but they may not hear that and just hear you at 18wpm.

Normally, people can copy CW much faster than the speed they are comfortable at if there’s a bigger inter character gap. That’s the Farnsworth method to learn in the first place, fast characters and big gaps. You should have a play with the many CW training programs and try 25wpm characters and 15wpm spacing, you may surprise yourself how quickly you can copy what is sent and that it helps you speed up. How fast should you go? Well whatever you want to do. I’ve been sat at 20wpm for about the last 10/12 years. I should try 21wpm and see how I get on.

Yes, it’s naughty calling someone at 25wpm with no delays because straight key or paddle it is not difficult to send 25wpm characters with a delay. But you do know why people do this? Or even call you at 30wpm? It’s because they need to make sure you know they’re better than you, more manly, better looking, more successful in work and love and much, much richer that you are. :rofl: And not because they are crassly ignorant! Ignore them till they slow down or go away, in the end it’s their loss. The majority will hear someone working slower and will adjust because it’s both polite and will encourage the sender.

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Hahaha! I did think that’s why people may have been sending so fast but I didn’t want to say it :joy:

In all honesty, I am speeding up from 15WPM to 17/18 as I get more comfortable but at one point it was just so I could get through the QSOs quickly and get down the hill on account of my cold hands!

I have been using a resource called morsewalker.com and have had it set to POTA QSOs. This past week I have been getting the computer stations to send between 20 and 25WPM just to try and get my speed up. I find with SOTA QSOs that, as I’m head copying, things will be fine and dandy until someone does something I don’t quite expect like ask me a question or go ‘off script’. Even S2S contacts can throw me if I’m not paying attention. I guess that’s just the process of learning CW and getting more confident.

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Hi Luke,
Morsle is a bit of fun to add to the daily CW routine.

I am very lucky to have some CW friends (Steve @MW0SAW, Matt @MW0KAX, and Lee @M0VKR) in a WhatsApp group. Each morning we get a ping from WhatsApp when one of us posts our Morsle result and it prompts the rest of us to do our practice and post our Morsle score. It’s just a bit of fun, but their support and encouragement has been invaluable.

Kevin, MW0KXN
3,108 out of 4,000 weeks.
Life is far too short to be grumpy.

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Hey Kevin,

Thanks for the recommendation! I just had a go, and Morsle is good fun and will be very helpful for me to have a go at regularly.

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A slightly contrary view to consider.

Many Morse newcomers apparently expect to learn the code at 12 wpm, then without extra practice, go out to summits where weather, comfort, equipment, operating positions are far different from the learning environment at home, other operators assume things about them such as what speeds they can operate at if they are on the air, etc.

Without training for those conditions by for example, joining in contests or regular qsos with 100 different QSO partners, don’t expect to be able to cope with the wide variation in operation styles from the cold/wet/frosty hilltops where nothing is comfortable, members of the public come and ask funny questions they just thought up, the weather is changeable etc.

In fact it’s not a realistic expectation. Similar disappointments due to stress occur on all modes, it’s not just CW.

The effect of stress is to downgrade your capability and certainly to reduce the speed at which you can comfortably exchange even RST reports, and that’s if you even got the chaser’s call correct. It can also make the chaser’s speed appear to be faster than it really is. You only need 10% less space between letters to make it seem 50% faster and harder to copy.

This is why many cw operators recommend chasing as practice for activating. Join in some contests. And try something difficult, like working a high speed Dxpedition.

After operating in a contest for a weekend, a few fast chasers on SOTA are easily dealt with.

73 Andrew VK1DA/VK2DA

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Hi Andrew,

I see your point and SOTA is certainly a different game to typical CW operation.

However, I think most people who learn CW now at the standard goal of 12wpm tend to start chasing and doing other forms of CW operation before moving into activating. I personally chased SOTA and POTA before activating, had some SKCC QSOs, the odd slow rag-chew, and spoke to a whole bunch of people over V-Band and Zoom classes when learning with the Long Island CW Club.

I’m unable to set up an antenna at my home QTH so my ability to practice CW on the air is limited. If I was to wait until I felt comfortable dealing with all the stresses involved in CW activating then I wouldn’t be activating summits at all.

73,
Luke - M7OPK

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Even if that were true, knowing you were sending much slower, they should inject bigger spaces between characters as I do when a chaser is slower than me. They are simply being rude and not really trying to communicate. Best ignored. He [it’s bound to be a ‘he’] will go away when you respond to other callers. As the activator you control the pile-up. Confidence comes with repetition.

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Most people have busy lives, all sorts of commitments, and so forth. Making frequent opportunities for longer CW QSOs at comfortable, and more-challenging, speeds can be difficult to organise.

Nonetheless there are a few things that may help:

1 Send a short piece of prose to yourself, just with a practice oscillator, or use the rig with TX disabled. Pick a page from book, a poem, the shipping forecast, callsigns, whatever you like.

Aim to do this EVERY DAY for 10-15 minutes. Pick your speed and try to be 100% correct - no errors. As you develop ‘muscle memory’, increase the speed so things remain ‘on the edge of challenging.’

2 While you are doing other things, or just relaxing, listen to the HF bands. Try and do 10-15 minutes EACH DAY. Contests can help: copy the call being sent, did you get the same call as the other operator? Some contest are frenetic, but others are more-reasonably paced.

Also, listen to ragchew QSOs which are available at all speeds. Aim to copy in your head, don’t write anything down. At first, it will be difficult, but like most things persistence pays dividends. In time, you should start to ‘see the words in your head’ as though written by an invisible hand.

3 Later on, assuming English is your first language, if you understand a little French or German try some of these QSOs. As you know, basic contacts cover report / name / qth / rig / antenna / WX. It is not too difficult to grasp bits and pieces.

Make yourself a learning plan and stick to it. Keep a written record of what you do / achieve. Daily repetition is key.

73 Dave

PS Thousands were trained to send and receive CW during WWII. Many people found their CW learning abilities improved after doing 20 push-ups outside in the snow, or so the training sergeants said :slight_smile:

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Luke

I’m not sure there is a ‘standard’ goal of 12 wpm etc.,

I’ve just listened to your morse on your QRZ.com page and there’s nothing wrong with your sending. Characters well formed. Enough space between letters and words… It will get faster with practice. Your morse speed and character speed were just about identical. (not farnsworth sending which is rarely heard on the air)

If you want to get better at morse the key is to learn to read morse accurately and for many that also means at a faster speed than they already can read. As you have noted most people reply at the speed you send at and don’t use Farnsworth. So I’d forget ‘farnsworth’.

Pick the speed (overall WPM) you can comfortably receive at now. (character speed and overall speed the same). Practice until you can copy that with ease and few mistakes. Then increase the speed (character & overall speed) one or two wpm at a time. Practice receiving at that speed until you accuracy creeps up to what is was at the slower speed. Then increase the speed another one or two words per minute. This won’t happen overnight. It might take a week or more of practice before you get comfortable with an increase of speed. That is entirely normal. Keep repeating this process until you are happy with your speed and accuracy.

I’d also practice by combining plain language exercises, with random groups of numbers, letters, punctuation. If you do that it will teach you to read anything thats sent to you - (including double dutch!!! :wink:). Then if someone ‘goes-off-script’, you’ll copy it with little if any problem. That is the mark of a good operator. Not necessarily the speed you send at!!

Good luck.

I’m not familiar with CW apps, but I think Morse Runner will send you any combination of letters numbers or anything else at any speed you wish.

David

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My SOTA activation rig generally has the keyer set at least 10% slower than my home shack rig, even on a good day…

Both have an easily accessible knob for changing the speed when necessary.

Simple chasing is my limit. I occasionally (if I want something trickier or I’m operating as a DX station) chase a DXpedition. I’ve listened in on several contests and entered one, once. I understand why some folk love them, but there’s only so much stress I can stand, and for me they might as well be called Hell On The Air.

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Hi David,

By the standard goal of 12wpm I just meant that the majority of courses aimed at getting people on the air do so at 12wpm.

But thank you very much for that advice, it was extremely helpful.

I think I can copy call signs and signal reports probably up to 20wpm but I doubt I’d be able to copy random letters, sentences, etc. at more than 11/12wpm.

I think I’ll go down to those speeds and be sure to copy more random pieces of info and then increase when I’m comfortable as you have suggested. Hopefully that’ll close the gap between the speed at which I can copy callsigns etc. and my ability to deal with someone going off script or sending something more complicated.

73,
Luke

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The “standard goal” of 12WPM has been mentioned a few times but of course there is no such thing. Years ago 12WPM was the test speed for a Class-A licence in the UK but otherwise it has no significance. Morse speeds on our bands are a lot higher these days than when I was first licensed way back in 1967 and that is mainly down to the advent of electronic/automated keyers.

More relevant, I suggest, is “where are the sticking points when learning CW?” Learning Morse is not a linear process and it is generally considered that there are three speeds at which learners get stuck for a while:

  1. Around 5-6WPM. At this speed you can still get away with not knowing the Morse code for all letters/numbers. To progress you have to have the mapping firmly embedded in your brain and it can take a while.
  2. About 12-13WPM. Now you need to be able to translate directly from Morse code to the individual letters without the intermediate step of thinking about dits and dahs. It is, arguably, the most difficult of the barriers to break through.
  3. About 18-20WPM. Now you find that individual letters start merging into words and you are thinking ahead in the context of the conversation, just as you do in normal speech. For most this is a relatively easy transition that happens naturally with practice.

Once you’re comfortably above 20WPM then there’s no stopping you! 30WPM and even 40WPM can come along quite quickly. Also, once you’re above 20WPM it’s a skill that doesn’t atrophy with lack of use.

There’s a reason that the tests were set at 5 and 12WPM and, in the USA, 13 and 20WPM!

I would say that 18WPM is a good standard for today’s bands.

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