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Scoring Questions


#1

Please would someone help me with some Scoring questions?

My understanding of the General Rules is that points are claimed on an Expedition basis, where an Expedition is defined as a SINGLE visit to a Summit.

  1. Does this mean that if I leave a Summit after less than four QSOs, but return later the same day, then I need at least four QSOs on the second visit to claim any points?

  2. Should a separate Activation Log be submitted to the SOTA Results Database for each visit, despite them being on the same day?

  3. Presumably leaving the Activation Area is effectively leaving the Summit?

Hopefully contacts will be plentiful and these will remain theoretical questions, but I would prefer to know the answers in advance rather than worry about them while out in the hills!

73, John 2E0VCO


#2
  1. No

  2. No

  3. Yes - but you could return!

Scenario:

If you made contacts at 0900, 0910 and 0915, left the summit, and returned later the same day to make a contact at 1830, you would enter that on the database as a single activation of 4 QSOs. And moreover, you would get your points.

As you say, they will likely remain theoretical questions.

Tom M1EYP


#3

In reply to 2E0VCO:

Please would someone help me with some Scoring questions?

My understanding of the General Rules is that points are claimed on an
Expedition basis, where an Expedition is defined as a SINGLE visit to
a Summit.

  1. Does this mean that if I leave a Summit after less than four QSOs,
    but return later the same day, then I need at least four QSOs on the
    second visit to claim any points?

From personal experience, virtually every one of the G/GW summits operating VHF, you would need to be transmitting into a dummy load to leave without at least twenty contacts.

Once you’re spotted, simply sit back and enjoy the inevitable
pile-up …especially at weekends.

Look forward to working you Summit to Summit, John.

73
Mike 2E0YYY


#4

In reply to 2E0YYY:

Once you’re spotted, simply sit back and enjoy the inevitable
pile-up …especially at weekends.

With respect, your experience is a little limited. It isn’t always that easy.


#5

In reply to M1MAJ:

True - I have one in G/SW that I will have to return to to qualify! QRP couldn’t hack it.

73

Brian G8ADD


#6

In reply to 2E0YYY:

From personal experience, virtually every one of the G/GW summits
operating VHF, you would need to be transmitting into a dummy load to
leave without at least twenty contacts.

You evidently haven’t tried some of the southern G and GW summits, Mick! On a weekday afternoon earlier this year, on G/SC-010, which is right on the doorstep of Bristol, it took me almost three hours to make the bare minimum 4 contacts on 2m FM!

I had a similar experience on GW/SW-030 one weekday last Autumn.

There is just not the level of activity down here that you seem to have in IO83 square nowadays. I could not, in my wildest dreams, hope to make 100 contacts in one activation on 2m FM in this region.

73,
Walt (G3NYY)


#7

In reply to 2E0YYY:
“G/GW summits operating VHF, Once you’re spotted, simply sit back and enjoy the inevitable pile-up”

The beauty of IO83 square - This may be the case Mike in North Wales, however Down here in Welsh Marches, Mid Wales and South Wales land it is not quite so easy!

For the 2.5 months of Winter Bonus Period in 2011, myself, Dave M0MYA and Geoff 2E0BTR racked up about 180 points, however each of these were tricky!
SSB was the preferred method on 2m, I dont think FM would have had nearly as much success! Furthermore the reliance on regualar SOTA Chasers in the Cheltenham area is key to the success down here!

Mike, bring yourself and the IO83 crew down to 82, 72 and 81 square and have a real challenge! The hills here are less popular, you see less ‘muggles’ asking silly questions and you get to see a copmpletely different side of Wales! Mid Wales is so beautifal and heavily under activated! You cant beat GW/MW-001 on a hot sunny day, views to Cadair Idris, the Beacons and the Cambrian Coast all from one hill!

73

Matt G8XYj


#8

Jimmy M3EYP is an experienced VHF operator, and almost always uses a 2m FM hand-portable feeding into a 3 el SOTA Beam. Generally speaking, in those more tricky areas of SW, WB, SC, DC, SE etc, he can rack up his 4 contacts inside about 45 minutes, if not sooner. He has good skills of utilising various beam headings and different CQ calling approaches to optimise his chances.

Nonetheless, there are plenty of summits, even in NW and LD, that are screened from major population centres by bigger hills, and these can be almost impossible to qualify on 2m FM, even by an activator with Jimmy’s tenacity. 2m SSB and a horizontal beam would give a greater chance of success of course, but you need to experience these hills before such confident declarations Mike :wink:

‘muggles’ asking silly questions

We should never allow ourselves to find this to be an inconvenience or irritation. It is a golden opportunity to raise the profile of amateur radio and show the hobby in a good light. The explanations do get repetitive, but there is always a chance that someone will contact their local radio club and join our ranks.

Tom M1EYP


#9

In reply to M1EYP:

Thanks Tom, that answers my scoring questions very clearly. I think I was being too pessimistic in my interpretation of the Rules - the important thing is that all four QSOs must be made on a single day to claim the points.

In reply to 2E0YYY:

Thanks Mike, we met at the Cambridge rally this year, and I too hope to speak to you S2S before too long. I will be carrying one of the SLABs you supplied!

In reply to ALL:

Thanks for your comments. I’m looking forward to getting out into the hills again after two very enjoyable activations in IO84 last year (as M6JDR) but will probably be starting in IO82 since I live in Cambridge… hence my concern to understand the Rules properly. I don’t expect VHF activations further South East to be quite as easy as on the bigger hills in the Northern Pennines! Hope to speak to some/all of you soon.

73, John 2E0VCO


#10

I don’t expect VHF activations further South East to be quite as easy as on the bigger hills in the Northern Pennines…

Indeed, they won’t be. But you may be relieved to know that Jimmy M3EYP (and others) has qualified nearly every hill in the South East using a 2m FM handheld and a SOTA Beam, the rest on HF SSB, and always in a single visit. The only really difficult one, that took ages, was Crowborough G/SE-007, but that was mainly down to a poor choice of HF band/aerial by me.

Good luck.

Tom M1EYP


#11

In reply to G8XYJ:

In reply to 2E0YYY:

For the 2.5 months of Winter Bonus Period in 2011, myself, Dave M0MYA
and Geoff 2E0BTR racked up about 180 points, however each of these
were tricky!
SSB was the preferred method on 2m, I dont think FM would have had
nearly as much success! Furthermore the reliance on regualar SOTA
Chasers in the Cheltenham area is key to the success down here!

Yes Matt, Cheltenham has quite a few regular chasers, good path to them from G/SP-004.

Mike, bring yourself and the IO83 crew down to 82, 72 and 81 square
and have a real challenge! The hills here are less popular, you see
less ‘muggles’ asking silly questions and you get to see a copmpletely
different side of Wales! Mid Wales is so beautifal and heavily under
activated! You cant beat GW/MW-001 on a hot sunny day, views to Cadair
Idris, the Beacons and the Cambrian Coast all from one hill!

More than happy to come down to Mid/South Wales and activate some of the more challenging summits. I’ll ask John G1STQ, if he can find a few windows in his already overcrowded diary.

73
Mike 2E0YYY


#12

In reply to 2E0YYY:

Once you’re spotted, simply sit back and enjoy the inevitable
pile-up …especially at weekends.

Hah hah hah hah haaaa!

This morning on G/SE-001, I was spotted by M6HBS, pretty much as soon as I started (at 0601z), having been tracked on APRS.

I had to resort to HF to muster my four contacts, only making the two on 2/FM

Andrew
M6ADB


#13

In reply to M6ADB:
I’m not surprised there Andrew. As I said in our QSO, it took me 1 1/2 hours on 2m FM to get 4 contacts from there on my first activation. Luckily Bill, G4WSB, turned up on the hill too and helped me out of a tight spot!

Great signal again though, what antenna are you using??

Jonathan
M6HBS


#14

In reply to M6HBS:

Great signal again though, what antenna are you using??

I was running the FT897 on 10W into a SOTAbeam MFD on top of a 7m pole


#15

In reply to 2E0VCO:

since I live in Cambridge…

Indeed, I also live in Cambridge and it’s a long trek to a SOTA summit.

If you are interested in doing a joint activation some time (or just meeting for a beer) let me know.

btw - you need to update your QRZ.COM entry with your new callsign (and maybe add an email address?).

Colin - G8TMV


#16

In reply to M6ADB:
With me at the base of the Marlborough Downs and a great slab of highish ground of the Downs between us, the signal strength took me by surprise (again!) even if the distance is only about 19 miles or so. Your antenna & 7m pole are certainly doing well for you Andrew. The only other time I have worked Walbury was on 40m back last year.

The APRS was working really well too, tracking you very easily. Did you drive up the track from the CP to the point where the track meets the Trig point path?

Jonathan
M6HBS


#17

In reply to M6HBS:

The only other time I have worked Walbury was on 40m back last year.

And that was me, as well :slight_smile:

The APRS was working really well too, tracking you very easily. Did
you drive up the track from the CP to the point where the track meets
the Trig point path?

Thanks, I’m pleased someone is finding the APRS useful :slight_smile:

And yes, whilst purists may disagree, I consider the walk from the byeway to the trig point far enough of a “final ascent” to be within the rules - especially when activation time is limited (as this morning)


#18

In reply to M6ADB:

As a purist myself I really only count those activations that I do by my own power from home. On that account it would be interesting to see who heads the table: no-one from Cambridge or Norwich I feel sure… Any other way is cheating surely?

73

Richard
G3CWI


#19

In reply to M6ADB:

And yes, whilst purists may disagree, I consider the walk from the
byeway to the trig point far enough of a “final ascent” to
be within the rules - especially when activation time is limited (as
this morning)

Surely the trig point on Walbury Hill is on private property? When I have activated Walbury Hill, I have always set up just by the gate at the highest point of the byeway directly opposite the trig point in the field. This is well within the activation zone.

I have noticed that Walbury Hill is nearly always “occupied” during VHF or UHF contests … usually by M0NUT/P, but during the recent 2m BackPackers by G0XAZ/P with an exceedingly wide signal. :frowning:

73,
Walt (G3NYY)


#20

In reply to M6ADB:

In reply to 2E0YYY:

Once you’re spotted, simply sit back and enjoy the inevitable
pile-up …especially at weekends.

Hah hah hah hah haaaa!

This morning on G/SE-001, I was spotted by M6HBS, pretty much as soon
as I started (at 0601z), having been tracked on APRS.

I had to resort to HF to muster my four contacts, only making the two
on 2/FM

I’m staying at my sisters place in Henley-on-Thames, next Tuesday evening. Walbury Hill G/CE-001 is not too far from there, so I’ve added an alert for next Wednesday morning.

73
Mike 2E0YYY