I’ve just been cleaning up and packing away after my (aborted) trip up North. Now Mrs. FMF is away this weekend so I’ve gone for full bonus brownie points by doing all the washing and putting all the SOTA gear away before she returns.
I had ordinary clothes to wash, cotton T-shirts, jeans, cotton underwear and walking trousers and walking tops. Often I’ll try to get walking gear washed separately from ordinary clothes, maybe because it’s super muddy but also to keep it away from fabric conditioner. Fabric conditioner blocks the pores of Goretex materials and also reduces the DWR finish on some items. I washed the normal clothes first and as it’s a nice day, hung them out. Then put the walking gear in the machine and also I washed all the gloves, Buffs, hats from the SOTA box. They get worn and often put back in the box in a less than “fresh” state.
The normal clothes have been on the washing line for 45mins on a still but warm day, 50% cloud with a lot of high level cloud. The walking gear has been on the line for 15mins. Checking now the cotton jeans and T-shirts are drier than when hung but still wet. The high wicking walking tops and trousers are 90% dry already, certainly the surfaces exposed to sunlight are dry. The fleecey stuff is just damp to touch and the Buffs are basically dry.
And your point is caller? Well it shows why walking in the right material makes such a difference. Cotton is just a non-starter. If I’d had been wearing the walking gear in a heavy shower and got wet, 15mins later I’d be nearly dry. As long as there was some breeze and the internal body heat would have dried out the clothes. A cotton T-shirt and jeans and I’d be wet and cold for a many hours.
It’s fascinating to see the difference between materials and is a good lesson in why you should not walk in the mountains in ordinary cotton clothes.
This was a lesson learned in my youth, fortunately by example rather than experience, that is from other people’s problems. Cotton is an absolute disaster, it carries lots of water to weigh you down, it is slow to dry and has little or no value as a thermal insulator when wet, wet cotton jeans and tops are a recipe for hypothermia and must be avoided. Technology has come a long way since I started, there were no nylon waterproofs, no Gortex, the only cagoules were made of canvas, for winter (well, for much of the year!) we wore heavy oiled wool jumpers. At least boots had progressed beyond leather soles heavily studded with mugger and clinker nails though you still saw the old guys wearing them occasionally! Vibram soled commando boots from war surplus shops were cheap and effective. Climbing and outdoor shops now are a veritable Aladdin’s cave - except that you spend a fortune instead of gaining it!
It’s nearly 2hs after I put the washing out, all the walking gear is bone dry and the cotton tops and jeans are still too wet even to consider wearing.
Well I walked in some cotton tops till I broke open the welding on my wallet and bought some modern “no-name” tops from Mountain Warehouse. The difference is amazing. I’d bought walking trousers early on because I saw how awful jeans were when contesting and they got wet.
What is interesting is the high wicking, quick drying tops can be had from the likes of Decathlon or Mountain Warehouse for around £10 a top. You need to keep an eye out for offers. I have some super lightweight ones for summer and heavier for other times and also a few with long sleeves. They are some artificial fibre and dry quickly. The downside is the moisture fromsweat is quickly disposed but that does leave the more “aromatic” compounds behind Or you can buy the same but with the Tier 1 brand names on them for £35-50 each! I’ve not tried Marino wool yet but it is meant to be much less “aromatic” than artificial fibres.
As a summer season SOTA starter, and still enjoying the sweltering 16°C in Aberdeen today, the airing of your, now clean, laundry makes me think it’s more than just some boots and jacket I should invest in for the winter season.
The local Trespass seems to have been “closing down” for the past four years, and frequently marks things down considerably.
I’ll have to show this to Mrs TGJ as I must be on a very large credit since I do all the washing here.
I haven’t used fabric conditioner on anything for years. I can’t see the point of it. It makes towels poor absorbers as well as all the issues with outdoor gear. I’ve just come back from a family holiday in a rental house where the towels were provided. They were nice and soft but useless at getting me dry.
I’ve got a few pairs of Duofold polyester underpants (not boxer shorts) for walking that I bought many years ago that, fortunately, are still going strong but one day I will need to replace them. They, and equivalents, don’t seem to be available any more.
As you have witnessed Andy. I am a solid convert to polyester. I wear multi layers to permit 2hrs on the summit. That includes Buffalo shirt, hood, gloves and polyester long johns as appropriate. I can have up to 4 layers on my chest an 3 pairs of trousers. I am not a Gortex convert, too dammed expensive and not a long term solution. Then a waterproof outer shell for when it is actually raining. This includes a heavier jacket in winter. In wet conditions I expect to be damp, but that matters not, I am still insulated and warm. I also carry a pair of Dachstein mitts for unexpected conditions.
I wear thin gloves while sending CW, so often a different style of glove on each hand. Boots are Meindl with wool socks and gaiters. Last but not lease a good quality necker to deflect the rain, sun, mozzies and wind.
I think the only ‘wicking’ vest was Hellyhansonlong sleeved vests - blue with a white/blue strip down the arms along with North Cape. For some time I also owned an ex WW2 woolen army shirt. I still have my HellyHanson but only use it for under canoeing kit.
I use fabric conditioner on normal clothes but use a sportswash on the synthetic sports stuff (used to do a lot of cycling) which helps keep the smells away.
Dettol do one, but Aldi/Tesco have their own brand. Some go in with the soap tray, others go in the fabric softener bit.
I’ve got a couple of the Sports Direct quick drying tops. They are fine most of the time but the fabric is quite thin. I have other ones accumulated from events that are thicker material and feel nicer, and still dry rapidly.
The main advantage of the tier 1 brands - those targetting hunters at least - is tougher fabric. The cheap whicking tops tend to look like you’ve been ravished by a pack of randy tigers after the first scrub-bash. I’ve been paying $50 a top for Swazi as a result and get 3-5 years daily use (of 2 tops).
My big disappointment is with merino as a tramping thermal. Great warmth, small pack size and weight when dry. But 3-5 days to dry one in a hut and huge wet weight. So back to microplastic polluting fleece.
I only wear cotton shirts on my hikes over either a wool mix undershirt in the cold wx or no under shirt. Climate is a bit different here in VK5 of course and I find cotton shirts better than synthetic stuff for the pong factor. I just take a wind jacket in my bag for when I get on the summit to put on. These shirts used to be my every day work shirts before I retired and are handy for weddings and funerals
too.
Regards
Ian vk5cz …
The same for me Armin. I always wear a merino base layer regardless of the weather. On top I usually have a Berghaus fleece and Paramo jacket, with the option of a down jacket instead of the fleece when it’s really cold. I’m quite temperature tolerant and just use the vents in my Paramo jacket and trousers to get cooling ventilation when it’s warm.
Walking hills in Scotland I still see people inappropriately clothed. The best example was a guy on Ben Cleuch GM/SS-059 back in 2020 who was wearing teeshirt, shorts and flipflops…
It’s interesting the difference in performance expected and received from gear aimed at walkers vs. professional/work use. I wear my walking gear typically one day / week with clothes being worn for around 12hrs and boots/socks for 8hrs of that day. I’ve got Tier1 brand socks and boots (Bridgedale and Meindl) but tops/trousers/fleeces are all from discount brands (Craghoppers/Mountain Warehouse). The level of use they get means it all lasts a long time. I got 9.5 years out of a pair of Meindl leather boots where the Goretex still works, the leather is only just starting to show age cracks and the soles are now well worn. As my Keen dog walking boots fell apart, the old Meindls will put into bad WX dogging. I change socks after a few years (typically 4) as they take such a beating with my weight that the support and padding is crushed out of them! I have some high-wicking poly-something tops that are 15years old and only just starting to get some wear holes in them.
I’m sure contrasting the use profile against yourself in your work use they’d fall apart much quicker. But it’s why the cheaper stuff works for me. Though looking at some of the high priced Tier1 clothes, they look awfully similar to the cheap stuff just with a posh logo!
Understood. But that was not the point I was trying to make. The specific issue I was highlighting is that the light wicking clothing is very prone to laddering. The cheap ‘non-brands’ from clothing-warehouse stores (along with many expensive brands aimed at hikers) do not merely last less time under continuous use, they don’t even last 1 day when being dragged through the scrub. So whilst I would absolutely go with cheaper brands for walking over open Scottish / Otago heather or tussock tops, I would make a very different choice of brand if I was crawling my way to an untracked scrubby summit. Which is where the hunting clothing seems to come in to it’s own - as that is precisely what it is designed for.
But I do agree with your fundamental point - that no-brand clothing is often just as good as the high tech high price outdoor-fashion brands, or sometimes better. For example I’ve tried various named brands of hiking/tramping socks in the $50-$75 a pair price bracket, and found nothing that outlasts a single unbranded pair of woolen farm socks from a 5-for-$40 pack from my local agricultural supplier!
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Regarding Merino - again, the point is about intended use. Brilliant for a day trip such as a 1-day SOTA outing, but absolutely useless for an extended tramp/hike in poor weather where it becomes a heavy sodden useless weight in the bottom of your pack for the remainder of the trip, unless you can light a fire to force-dry it.
You really have to be very careful about who you buy what clothing/equipment from.
Fortunately, since I am well equipped, I haven’t had to buy anything for a long time.
In my experience, many manufacturers have moved away from good quality and are producing more fashion. This also shows that there are more and more such “stores”. As far as I remember, it was Jack Wolfskin that started it. But Mammut, North Face, Salewa,… and many others have also switched from functional clothing to fashion.
A sure sign of this for me is that they no longer buy from reliable suppliers such as Gore-Tex or Malden Mills (Polartec). Cheaper fleece or membranes are being used. I was also told that Gore, for example, expects a certain quality of workmanship for their membranes. This cannot be achieved in cheap sewing factories. (I have been happy with my Gore Kokatat dry suit for sea kayaking for years)
And in many areas where things are more robust, clothing for agriculture or hunting, for example, is really good!
Or you can buy the same but with the Tier 1 brand names on them for £35-50 each! I’ve not tried Marino wool yet but it is meant to be much less “aromatic” than artificial fibres.