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SB-003 Cushat Law activation 18/10/2007


#1

In reply to G1ZJQ:

Sorry I lost you Derek, we were just approaching Penrith for M6 South
and lost you completely. We first heard you as we passed Blencathra,
thanks for the contact.
rgds Keith G0OXV


#2

In reply to 2E0HJD:

I think it is called “tying up loose ends”. The only difference I can see between Derek activating a deleted summit for no points and others activating the same summit over and over for no points is the chasers get no points either. As far as I was concerned it was a chance to work a summit that I wasn’t around to work in 2002. It may not be in the database but it is in my log. As a dedicated chaser I will try to support known activators when ever I can whatever the event. If someone came on from the top of Mount Everest would you ignore them because there was no points in it?

Steve GW7AAV


#3

In reply to 2E0HJD:

Mick, I hope you had a smile on your face as you wrote your post!

I don’t think a single spot for the deleted SB-003 is going to alter the purpose of the SOTA spotting system. Steve is correct that we should support… no not just support, but encourage Derek in his personal quest. There are few enough activators in the SB region. Derek has shown great willingness to go back on repeat activations, even when a long and arduous approach has to be endured such as that for Sighty Crag SB-005. It would be a shame if the indigenous SOTA population were put off and the region only activated by incomers such as myself.

Derek, I very much enjoyed the report. I might go up there next Easter for a bit of that solitude!

73, Gerald


#4

In reply to 2E0HJD:

…but it is/maybe of interest to SOTA chasers. It is not IOTA or JOTA or on any other OTA or even DX so it does not belong on the cluster as such.

What about your spots?

Thu 12:40 GW0DSP/P on GW/NO-NE 145.400 fm
needs more paper (Posted by 2E0HJD)
Thu 12:37 GW0DSP/P on GW/NO-NE 145.500 ssb
on hh in loo ,none summit (Posted by 2E0HJD)

You may well find it funny but I think you have overstepped the mark this time.

I think you can be wickedly funny at times Mick, but sometimes you don’t know when to let something lie and you are unfortunately making enemies of those who don’t always understand you sense of humour. Please keep the crudity for Skype where you can offend the least number on people and everyone knows you.

If you turned WebMon off you wouldn’t be getting your knickers in a twist about false alarms. It is the worst thing to happen to SOTA because nobody listens any more.

Also remember that time just like the list of hills recognised by SOTA is all relative. Derek was just a few years late getting to the summit. In 2002 it wasn’t a Marilyn but everyone thought it was, they may change there minds again the next time it is measured and it would count again.

Have a nice day and remember not to talk to strangers. Oh! that’s amateur radio out then they don’t get much stranger.

Steve GW7AAV

Extra territorium jus dicenti impune non paretur


#5

In reply to GW7AAV:

In reply to 2E0HJD:

The only difference I can see between Derek activating a deleted summit for > no points and others activating the same summit over and over for no
points is the chasers get no points either.

Steve GW7AAV

Hi Steve, I don’t understand your sentiment in the above statement!! Nor do I see any relevence in aiming this remark at Tom M1EYP Dave G6LKB and myself, us three being the main repeat ativators of a given summit, within SOTA.

Why did you feel the need to quote something like that, what has multiple activations of a genuine sota summit got to do with this thread in particular? Maybe I missed something.

If anyone does repeat activations of a genuine SOTA summit, what’s the problem with that?

73 Mike


#6

In reply to GW0DSP:

If anyone does repeat activations of a genuine SOTA summit, what’s the problem with that?

I don’t have any problem with that Mike, that is the point, I also don’t see any difference with activating deleted summits for the hell of it rather than the points. As you well know I have supported Dave, Tom and yourself when ever I can.

73 Steve


#7

In reply to GW7AAV:

How could you or anyone else possibly have a problem with multiple activations Steve?, I certainly don’t want to get into any silly arguments on this thread, but there is no comparrison in the two examples you quote…

Those of us who do multiple activations, do so in the name of SOTA and give chaser points out in the name of SOTA, therefore it is correct for us to be spotted on SOTAwatch2.

On the other hand Derek was not on a SOTA summit and was not giving out SOTA points so maybe he shouldn’t have been spotted on SOTAwatch2 but on the DX Cluster instead.

I think that the point that was being made, maybe I’m wrong, is that let’s keep the SOTA spots for just that, SOTA spots, and not for non-sota summits, or even worse, for chasers to keep putting their reports on there from every activator.
The one exception to this would be Peter ON3WAB because Peter can’t use 5Mhz to activators on that band, but his reports are always welcomed by all UK activators, yourself included I’m certain.

To Derek, power to your elbow mate, you are doing what you enjoy most, getting up there on the summits and enjoying your radio in wonderful surroundings and I am in no way saying anything against that. I fully understand why you wanted to do what was formerly SB-002 and SB-003, and I look forward to your next outings.


#8

In reply to GW0DSP:

On the other hand Derek was not on a SOTA summit and was not giving
out SOTA points so maybe he shouldn’t have been spotted on SOTAwatch2
but on the DX Cluster instead.

Sorry Mike, are we to be so totally rigid that we start looking in on ourselves? I’m not saying that all and sundry signing /P sitting on a hill should be spotted, but Derek is a well known SOTA activator and it would have been nice to think that his personal venture based on the original set of SB summits at the very least received a reasonable measure of support from fellow SOTA enthusiasts. Had I been available, I for one would have been really pleased to work him regardless of there being no points on offer.

73, Gerald


#9

In reply to G1ZJQ:

Hi Derek,

Yes, these certainly are worthy of a visit. I assume you know about www.cheviotwalks.co.uk. Hedgehope is described as majestic and indeed it is. Maybe we can meet up for an activation if you are land-based next Easter.

73, Gerald


#10

In reply to G4OIG:

Be fair Gerald, my opening sentence said clearly that I don’t want to get involved in any silly argument (maybe debate is a better term) on this thread.

I then went on to ask Steve AAV how he could possibly compare multiple (real sota) activations with non-sota activations and I simply tried to explain how I interpreted SOMEONE ELSE’S post about the misuse of the spots page, this may or may not neccessarily be my own view.

I can understand though, and I should imagine that it is VERY annoying, for those using Webmon or similar to be alerted to a spot, to put down whatever they are doing, run to the shack to catch the activation, just to read that a certain station is 57 in Anytown, or that Fred blogs is on a none sota hill.

73 Mike


#11

In reply to GW0DSP:

The problem is that it is Mick’s interpretation as to what constitutes misuse of the spots page and as he is the only one making a fuss I would say he is in the minority. I have certainly been asked in the past to post spots for stations not on summits but testing antennas, including members of the managment commitee. Other spots have appeared at times for rare WAB areas including the car parks of some summits and areas just out of the activation zone but in a different county. The summit in question may well be a rare WAB square to some and we need to remember that there are a lot of chasers who wouldn’t be in to SOTA if it wasn’t for the chance to log rare WAB squares. I guess a rare square would be of interest to at least half the regular chasers.
The spots is about helping each other get contacts, to be pedantic about what can and can’t be posted is self defacing and self defeating. I certainly will not be told what I can and cannot post by Mick or anyone else and the day I am told by the managment committee is the day I turn off my radios and put them back in the box for another ten years.


#12

You won’t be told that Steve. Places like SB-002, SB-003, LD-002 and NP-021 are part of SOTA history, and I for one would certainly welcome spots on activity from these summits. If anyone actually goes to the trouble of climbing Scafell G/LD-002, and puts it on the air for zero points, zero uniques and zero activations, then I certainly wouldn’t begrudge putting down my newspaper and making the long trek to the shack only to discover that there were no points in it for me either!

While on the Pennine Way in 2006, I contributed a few “Non-spots” from my mobile 'phone. This was whenever I was about to be interviewed live on the radio about my progress on the Pennine Way, and my SOTA activities. My spots were for Silk FM radio on a QRG of 106.9MHz FM. I found out later that several stations in the UK and in Europe appreciated these “spots” and used them to tune in on VHF, or listen online via the station’s webstream. There were certainly no complaints. I would agree with Steve that the moaner(s) here appear to be in a small minority, and that the judgement of many who send information they think will be of interest via SOTAwatch, is generally correct.

The filling up of the live spots page with individual chasers’ reports is a separate issue, and is perhaps a more worthy debate. But again, while it might cause chasers the inconvenience of reaching for their X-Y Position Indicator for a Display System, many activators find this information very useful as received via SPOTlite on their mobile 'phones during activations, particularly when they haven’t worked that chaser or if propagation is changing. If in doubt, we should perhaps view these situations from the point of view of the person that has climbed the mountain, rather than the person that has sat down in the shack.

Tom M1EYP


#13

Mea Culpa!
I will hold my hands up, I put spots in for stations I have just worked with my report and my QTH and sometimes another brief comment. I am often 57 in Anytown! Why? When I started out in SOTA this was not an uncommon practice. Chasers would exchange brief messages/spots about the activator, comments on a situation like “worsening weather” or a rather “large beetle”. I like to see a couple of spots saying that an activator has been worked a couple of times on the same frequency. Again going back to the early days it was more than possible for an activator NOT to get his four contacts. It was good to know that they had accomplished that. There have also been times when I have considered not giving a call to an activator because the spot is half hour or more old. I turn on the rig and they are still there. A more recent spot helps. It is interesting to see which stations have managed to work activators and at what locations. Why? I am intrigued by propagation and aerials. These spots make interesting reading. Why stop?
It is also worth pointing out that there have been complaints on the reflector of not enough spots! Perhaps the balance is right?
Some of you who have come to SOTA relatively recently take it very very seriously indeed. Again back in the old days (hi hi) the thing I liked about SOTA was the camaraderie, band of brothers spirit. It is still there but it is getting far to serious. So what if a non SOTA spot is on the system? If it gives pleasure to the guy up the hill and to a few of us sad individuals who don’t just “do” SOTA, let it be. On occasion the spots have been used to notify those watching of an unusual station on 5 megs that is not SOTA. Wonderful, I hope it keeps happening.
I always liked SOTA for the fun and friendship. Lets keep it that way. What we do is for fun and recreation, we’re not saving the world and there is room for all of us. Live and let live.
Q GW3BV


#14

In reply to GW0DSP:

I wasn’t getting at you personally Mike, it’s just that I picked up on something you wrote. I think Tom has made some very valid comments which I am sure the majority will agree with.

As for Webmon - personally I don’t use it. The computer I use for Internet access is in the study (former bedroom) whereas the shack is in an alcove in a bedroom. A Saturday with multiple 7MHz CW activations has me running up and down the stairs and dashing back and forth along the landing while juggling house and garden chores, so I fully understand the potential for frustration. Mind you, that can occur equally when GM9XXX/P is posted while activating a SOTA summit using a 2m FM handheld!

73, Gerald


#15

In reply to GW7AAV:

Steve I am rather baffled by your actions and attitude here. This thread was absolutely nothing whatsoever to do do with me until you turned on the multiple activators in the third post on this thread. What was the idea behind that? what did I or any other multiple activator do to deserve that. We would at least be activating a SOTA summit giving away SOTA points.

Steve, if you have a gripe with Mick, which is really the issue here, then I suggest you aim your replies and remarks at him directly and not by trying to drag me or anyone else into it with silly remarks regarding multiple activations.

Tom, you refer to the moaner(s) on this thread, Mick is obviously one of the moaners, the only one as far as my reading skills allow me to see, so who is/are the other(s).

To both Steve and Tom, please read the thread “Is it me” by Mike G4BLH, take special note of the reply by Jon, who informs us that the system is at bursting point and has now reached the point of regular overloading and regularly slowing up then crashing, I’m sure you are both aware that the spots have been down quite a few times of late. Even in this knowledge you both openly invite none sota traffic to the spots page, unbelieveable!!


#16

In reply to GW0DSP:

In reply to GW7AAV:

To both Steve and Tom, please read the thread “Is it me” by
Mike G4BLH, take special note of the reply by Jon, who informs us that
the system is at bursting point and has now reached the point of
regular overloading and regularly slowing up then crashing, I’m sure
you are both aware that the spots have been down quite a few times of
late. Even in this knowledge you both openly invite none sota traffic
to the spots page, unbelieveable!!

Mike the number of spots, which require very little space compared with storing reflector ramblings, is not the cause of the slowness and danger of a crash. It is as Jon says the hit rate from a large number of users updating these pages at a very short time interval. It would probably help more if everyone who is using 1 minute refresh changed to five minutes. But as Quentin has pointed out some are taking everything far too seriously and seem to need to be the first to work an activator.
If you need the spots at the fastest rate possible use the IRC chat system.
Roger G4OWG


#17

In reply to G4OIG:

In reply to GW0DSP:

I wasn’t getting at you personally Mike, it’s just that I picked up on
something you wrote.

I know that Gerald, I’m a big lad and no offence taken.

A Saturday with multiple 7MHz CW
activations has me running up and down the stairs and dashing back and
forth along the landing while juggling house and garden chores, so I
fully understand the potential for frustration. Mind you, that can
occur equally when GM9XXX/P is posted while activating a SOTA summit
using a 2m FM handheld!

73, Gerald

Have you tried the SOTA Spots manager that was on the Sota France site? It is very good and even offers filtering for cw, ssb etc. Unfortunately it won’t filter out fred is 59 in wherever, hi.

To Quentin, I agree with almost all you say, but the past is the past, things have changed dramatically in sota, even in the short time I have been a participant and the spots page is regularly overwhelmed these days and then crashes due to the huge increase in useage, leaving a lot of chasers running around like headless chickens. I think it slightly irresponsible to condone the use of non sota traffic on the spots page in such conditions.
Having said that, it’s not my gripe, I was just dragged into it by someone not prepared to take on the instigator direct for whatever reason.

73 Mike


#18

In reply to G1ZJQ:

What did I start here?

Derek, you didn’t start anything here at all mate, you just went out and played radio, Mick then harmlessley said that the summit was no longer a sota summit, that’s all, but then others decided to make an attept to stir the mire and make some sort of big issue out of it for reasons unknown.

Glad to hear your tiling went well, not a bad job but the grouting gets to me, hi. I’m up to my neck in a painting job at the moment but more or less sorted it now.

73 Mike


#19

In reply to 2E0HJD:

The problem as i see it is that once again Steve you have put your gob in gear before engaging your brain !

If I had done that my reply would have been removed from the reflector.

in your eagerness to spot you yourself failed to observe this was no longer a sota summit

You obviously did not read the spot which stated clearly that this was a deleted summit.

Thu 12:09 G1ZJQ/P on G/EXSB-3 - [edit] 144.310 ssb
Derek on deleted summit SB-003 so no points IO85WK (Posted by GW7AAV)

Perhaps this could be implemented, or maybe a rule change stating what can and cant be posted to spots

We don’t need such a thing because only you have a problem with it so far or maybe we should ban spots about being in the bathroom on a handheld, I would vote for that.


#20

I made the point earlier that some of these “non-spots” while being a minor irritant to chasers, were actually rather useful for activators. There was one today. After I had self-spotted on 144.050MHz CW, a “non-spot” appeared from Roger G4OWG, with the comment line “can he beam North?”.

I read this, and as a result (a) beamed North-East towards Leeds, and (b) knew there was somebody looking for me on 2m CW. Without this “non-spot”, I wouldn’t have had a clue about any of this. A later non-spot was from Mike GW0DSP, confirming that Robin GM7PKT/P was putting in a good signal on 144.310MHz SSB. Now Robin had already self-spotted on this very frequency and mode, so what further could DSP’s “non-spot” offer? The answer is that it encouraged me as an activator that the S2S was feasible, and encouraged me to go hunting for it. Otherwise I might have just assumed I wasn’t going to get it or that he had already moved onto 5MHz, with the initial silence I heard on that QRG.

These were both “non-spots” according to your definition Mick, and both probably of little or no use to other shack-bound chasers. But both contributions were invaluable live information to me on a SOTA summit. Without these “non-spots”, I wouldn’t have worked either Roger or Robin. Because of them I worked both. As I said, think of it from the activator’s point of view primarily before dismissing them as a waste of a line on your monitor. The extra jogs up and down stairs will do you good anyway. :wink:

Mike, it looks to me that you might have misinterpreted Steve’s original comments, as I initially read them as supportive of spots for deleted summits and related activities, and supportive of multiple zero point activations of the same summit. And we know he is supportive of the latter through the number of times he appears in each of our respective logbooks, right? I certainly didn’t read it as a remark “aimed” at you, me or anyone in any case.

Keep smiling everyone, it’s only a hobby.

Tom M1EYP