As a follow up, maybe we should do away with activator points and maybe also chaser points and only count s2s points? That would get over the “problem” and get more people out on summits !
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I’m in a similar position to Colm. I’m lucky enough to live near many SOTA summits and my nearest (G/NP-028) is just over an hour’s walk from my front door. And I’ve also run out of local summits. But I don’t want the rules changing. We don’t do SOTA because it’s easy, but because it’s hard. (Apologies to JFK).
You don’t need activator points to enjoy a walk in the country, the fresh air and the sound of birdsong. So on Thursday I did my local summit for the 5th time this year. I searched for summit to summit contacts and I had my first ever 10m SOTA QSOs. I’d added the band to my homebrew CW transceiver and made a ground plane antenna and this was a chance to try it. I had to self spot as the RBN wasn’t picking me up. I didn’t expect any answers but almost fell off my sit-mat when I got the first call. In total there were 3 chasers on the band, presumably sporadic E. So no activator points but 38 S2S points and an enjoyable 3 hours sat on a hill top.
I’m still after activator points but like value for money so on Friday I had a very long day out and did the 150 mile round trip to the Lake District. I climbed G/LD-022, G/LD-007, G/LD-010 and G/LD-003 for a total of 32 points (plus 27 S2S points). The weather wasn’t the best with rain and strong winds at times but in many ways that made it a more satisfying day (although I wouldn’t have wanted bad weather all day) as it was a real sense of achievement.
For the rest of the year I’ll pick up a few activator points on a couple of family holidays and there are a couple of localish 2 point summits I’ll revisit in December for the winter bonus. There are also a few summits I’ve activated but didn’t get any summit to summits so I’ll go back to those specifically to find S2S. I also hope to have another trip or two to LD for some more bumper days out. Then I need to make refinements to my rig, build some more antennas, try SSB…
So, as FMF says, just enjoying being out and playing radio is all you need.
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I personally don’t care about points (the walking and operating is enough for me) but that would
- kill an interesting hobby for most chasers [many of whom are unable to get on the hills], and
- seriously reduce the interest of many activators to work non-S2S chasers.
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As far as I’m aware, there is nothing stopping anyone issuing awards for whatever they like. The op could start their own personal award scheme if they wanted to. Several people have done this. There used to be a Wainwrights scheme. And I think the Hemaoids are still active.
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Used to be? If you mean Wainwrights On The Air (WOTA), it’s still active.
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There is a maybe underestimated Sota category namely S2S.
It doesn’t matter whether you have been to the summit once or a hundred times this year and the number of points is only included with the first qso.
I’ve been activating my local summits dozens of times a year since 2016 and I’m close to 10000 S2S pt and had more then 2000 S2S qsos.
73 Chris
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This is impressive Chris and I’m full of admiration for your achievement. I really like getting a S2S contact - it’s the icing on the cake - not so much for the points (which as I said above, I don’t care about) but for the notion that there’s another activator doing the same thing at the same time as me and we are in radio contact with each other. Also, it can lead to some amazing QRP to QRP contacts on VHF.
However, it’s usually a small minority of my contacts - unless I’m participating in a special SOTA event which attracts a lot of activators on to the hills at the same time - because I usually cannot time my activation on a given band to coincide with many other activators doing the same thing.
regards, Andy
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Personally I like the points system as it gives me targets to aim for. While I have some interim targets, ultimately I hope to make double Goat before I need to hang up my boots. It is not a measure that can be used for comparison with others as we all live in different locations, have differing amounts of time available and increasingly more relevant, have differing amounts of funding. Like life, SOTA is not a level playing field.
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If there were to be a change to the rules, I’d rather it’d be that you could accumulate QSOs over multiple visits to the same summit within the same year towards the 4 needed to get points for that summit.
So if you only managed 2 QSOs on the first visit, you could go back and try again and as soon as you got a total of four QSOs (e.g. 2+1+1), you’d get the points.
Of course, for many summits, it would be easier to just drum up more interest for your second visit on an attempt at getting 4 contacts, but for more remote summits it might be the difference between getting people attempting it and not bothering to even try.
Having said that, I’m quite happy with the rules as they are! 
I’m not likely going to achieve MG or Shack Sloth any time soon, but it gives me a reason to have fun with my radio anyway.
Why would anyone bother climbing Everest?
Different mountains have different attractions (which have nothing to do with the SOTA points). I love the challenge and sense of achievement of climbing the larger hills. However, SOTA has introduced me to lots of smaller hills that I would probably not have bothered climbing and which I have thoroughly enjoyed for their views etc.
The thrill of making DX contacts with equipment I have carried up the hill is the same whatever hill I climb. The only difference is the amount of sweat I expend and how long it takes me to get my breath back before making that first voice contact!
I do have some sympathy for the scenario Takeo quotes. It isn’t fair, but nothing is.
Andy’s comment above mirrors my view.
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I think
WWFF use that system, you can accumulate QSOs over multiple visits but you need 144 in their scheme to qualify a location so it makes sense. With POTA the 10 required have to collected in a 24 hour period. I haven’t checked but I suspect the 4 QSOs required in SOTA have to be collected on the same date. I’m happy with the SOTA rules. Four QSOs shouldn’t be a challenge using HF unless propogation conditions are very bad - like they were for me on Friday! VHF/UHF is different and is a challenge in places but having recently activated the UKs most south westerly summit using VHF only it can be done and the effort required brings it own reward.
But you can add variety to a local summit by trying different bands and modes. I’ve done a couple this year where I used 2m FM, SSB, CW and data and another where I was the first person to use 6m.
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Nope, in one activation which can span midnight (many VK activations do so as UTC midnight is 10am). The database handles it just fine. In fact, it’d probably handle staying on the summit for more than 24 hours, but I’d have to check that.
As I’ve said before, level playing fields don’t have sufficient prominence.
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I don’t necessarily see the problem with this. If you’re activating, then you’re activating. You’ve still done 1000 climbs, 1000 activations, 1000 descents and had 1000 cups of tea ! I don’t think it diminishes the MG status. What’s the point in stretching it out over years? It’s no harder, takes no less effort, but just takes longer to complete.
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This is a wind-up right?
I can assure you, that if we did away with chaser points and activator points, reducing the scheme to include just the S2S section, we would see such a vast reduction of people out on summits - not to mention the 100% eradication of chasers - that we would not “get over the problem” - but face the problem of the probable end of SOTA.
It astounds me whenever anyone suggests the fundamental restructuring of amateur radio’s biggest success story, after two glorious decades!
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Its a good idea. But in practice it would still be unfair.
My nearest SOTA summits on the North York moors are all single pointers’.
If i lived in Keswick. My nearest SOTA summits would include a number of 10 pointers, 8 pointers and so on.
So I’d still find it ‘uniqual’, to obtain the same number of points with the same number of ascents.
Perhaps do a away with different points for different summits and simply give 10 points for any SOTA summit? 
Dave
This is a good idea. Mathematically though, if you’re going to give all the summits the same points, then that might as well be one point, as opposed to ten. Saves on displaying a load of meaningless redundant zeroes!
Like I say, it’s a good idea. Such a good idea that we already do it, and have done for many years.
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Its important to remember that SOTA is an award scheme. The award by its nature has to be worked for. The MG award has to be earned by heaving your carcass and gear up hills, higher scoring hills are higher so more energy is expended per ascent. Lower scoring hills involve less energy expenditure so there has to be more ascents to even up the effort. There is no additional value assigned to achieving the award more quickly, there is no demerit in taking longer. the Mountain Goat or the Shack Sloth certificates and trophies do not say how long you took to earn them, after all award schemes are not supposed to be quick and easy. If the MT decided to allot say ten times more points for the summits then you can be pretty sure that we would also increase the number of points for the award by a factor of ten! 
Instead of being unhappy that there is a shortage of summits near to you, or you have too little time to get to them, or that fuel prices have become scandalously high, why not just thank the Diety of your choice that you have beautiful mountains to enjoy and the health and vigour to indulge that enjoyment when you can get to them?
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Wouldn’t that lead to points-conscious activators ignoring the harder summits and mainly doing the easy ones? Same with the winter bonus - if it didn’t exist, folk would activate those summits mainly at other times of the year. The existing scheme encourages a wider range of summits to be activated in all seasons.
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In my warped mind comparing activator scores between different associations doesn’t make much sense. Each association has it’s own flavor…it’s own characteristics, when it comes to scoring Activator points.
Some states are loaded with 10 pointers, and some have none. Some Associations have only low point summits, and others have lots of high pointers. Some have summer and winter bonuses, some don’t.
Few things, especially topography, are the same Association to Association.
I compare my Activator score to other Associations, but in reality my point total is only comparable to other stations in my Association.
The points are nice, but the exercise, the hikes, the adventure, the exploring, are what I really like most about SOTA.
Pete
WA7JTM
W7A
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The reason why #SOTA has been so successful for the last 20 years is because the MT have done all the research and thinking for us; and I think they have proofed and tested the scheme for us.
I think it’s absolutely brilliant.
The nearest summit for me is a 45 minute drive, a 1 pointer.
If I want to activate any meaningful summits (points-wise) I have to go into Wales or into the Lake District 3+ hours drive at least (and back again).
I love to experience places I never ever thought I would ever get to see.
Today’s waterfalls at the start of GW/NW-036 (Tarrenhendre) were breathtaking.
Even some TikTok Influencers - rocking up in heir Nissan Micra with duvets in the back - were doing their stuff - giving it the V signs, pointing at the water fall etc.
If you are after the Mountain Sloth Award, I think you are on the right track but perhaps not quite the right scheme.
73, Robert
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