In reply to 2E0KPO:
Glad you got permission to activate the summit guys, this is one summit i have never done, i wonder if the farmer will let me use his farm track and fence, when i come over sometime this year. Steve m0sgb
Richard, I am now absolutely baffled, you say that you met Alan at SJ296571 that appears to be on the bottom road, somewhere near to the gate at the start to the tarmac road up to the radio station site, maybe you could confirm this?
It is pointed out on the summit pages regarding GW/NW-062 that permission is needed to enter from the road.
In the conversation we had this morning Mike explained to me that he had activated Hope Mountain on Thursday 4/6/09 and that he mentioned to Alan that he was sorry that he hadn’t accompanied the four people who Alan and David chatted with near the transmitter houses.
He went on to explain that Alan told him that he had no recollection whatsoever of any group of people talking to himself and David Bannister and confirmed to Mike that no permission has been sought or granted since Mike last asked for permission to take Ron GW4EVX onto the site.
Mike added that he is prepared to take any member of the MT or any SOTA participant to Alan’s farmhouse to discuss the matter with Alan in person, to prove that what he has told me is true.
Alan’s (Land Owner) response is that ALL ACTIVITY FROM THE RADIO STATION SIDE OF THE SUMMIT IS BANNED unless the activator is accompanied by Mike. Mike said he is as willing as ever to accompany activators onto that side of the summit and is pleased that he has at least managed to keep access for SOTA participants to continue enjoying that side of the summit. Everyone knows how to get hold of Mike
If what Alan told Mike is true, then surely you entered onto private land without prior permission and that is against the rules.
Rule 3.7
All expeditions must use legitimate access routes and comply with any local rules regarding use of land. In particular, Activators must ensure that they have any neccessary permission to operate from their chosen Summit.
Rule 3.7.3.6
Behaviour likely to bring SOTA into disrepute.
Activators must operate with due consideration for othr people on the hills. Exessive noise, inconsiderate siting of equipment and antennas, etc. is not acceptable and potentially brings the programme into disrepute. There can be no justification for trespassing on private property, and the wishes of the landowner must remain paramount.
I will send an email to MT who I hope will look into this matter
Steve
M0KPO
Hi all,
Mike GW0DSP told me on the radio at the time we were trespassing and than I told him that we all had permission from both David and Alan.
Jimmy M3EYP
In reply to 2E0KPO:
I will send an email to MT who I hope will look into this matter
Hi Steve
Thanks for your analysis. I am confident that the Management Team will take the appropriate action.
73
Richard
G3CWI
In reply to 2E0KPO:
You know, Steve, this has taken on the appearance of a rather distasteful witch hunt.
If Tom and Richard had permission, then there is no problem, right?
If Tom and Richard did not have permission, then there still was no problem because they were not caught. Right?
However, if there was no permission, then busily drawing the attention of the landowners to the trespass will quite possibly will make access more difficult in future. IF there was a trespass, then it could be argued that it brings SOTA into disrepute only if the trespass is discovered - for instance there are four recorded activations of Swinside, all without permission yet no attention has been drawn to them, and they have not brought SOTA into disrepute. In my opinion Mike’s present course of conduct in questioning the landowners is CERTAINLY bringing SOTA into disrepute, is that his intention in your opinion? If so, why? Do you think Mike values “getting at” somebody more than he values SOTA?
Let me say a bit more about my personal outlook on trespass in the hills.
I have spent fifty-odd years walking our hills, I have often trespassed in that time but have never felt I was doing any harm, or wrong for that matter. I venerate the people who made our present relative freedom in the hills possible by taking part in the mass trespasses of the thirties, some of them going to jail for it. It is conceivable that this is a generation thing, that I regard trespass more lightly than you do because now access to the hills is easier than it ever was before, there are huge areas that you can roam freely on that when I started in the hills you went over with your head swivelling for gamekeepers. What this means is that I personally don’t give a monkey’s if somebody indulges in a little discreet trespassing and don’t break the eleventh commandment: other members of the MT might feel differently, I haven’t asked them, but it is, I suppose, appropriate that a range of viewpoints be represented.
Now be a good chap, send your email if you so wish, but this reflector is not the place for witch hunts and private vendettas!
73
Brian G8ADD
The historical perspective is interesting Brian, and of course much of today’s excellent access and routes were ‘won’ through direct action in years gone by. ISTR stories about huge gatherings on Kinder Scout and Malham Cove, for instance.
However, none of that is relevant here. Jimmy, Richard and I did indeed get permission, so as you say, there is no problem, right?
In fact I have a good record of asking for and getting permission to access summits on private land. Hope Mountain is just one example, others include View Edge, Gyrn Moelfre (to park, and use a section of track that is not PROW), White Hill (before it became open access - I negotiated permission for access days for SOTA in 2003 and 2004) and many in Northern Ireland. Only once has permission been refused - and as a result, I still haven’t done that one yet.
I place on record my displeasure at the inference of trespass, and being untruthful.
Tom M1EYP
In reply to M1EYP:
In reply to M3EYP:
My Dad teaches me to respect the law and rules of this country, and living in a rural area my Dad and I do a lot of shooting, when walkers go where they shouldnt this can not only put them in danger but also they are breaking the law !
No one is above the law of this country, no one !
I also respect the rules of SOTA and if I break the rules the appropriate action should be taken.
Morgan
M3LMP
In reply to G8ADD:
I have to be careful what I say here, as I know, I am more likely to get banned than some other members due to the knowledge that there are a few that would like to science me as well.
I find it amazing that we see you Brian, can I say it, endorsing trespassing in your post above. Did I understand that right? Trespass but don’t get caught!
As for a witch hunt, its not the first time this forum has been used for a witch hunt has it? There have been plenty of public witch hunts on here.
Mine is not a witch hunt, I just take offense to being preached to and yet the preachers are not taking account or responsibility for there own actions.
I have may my opinion clear, I do believe that hope mountain was visited with no prior permission and therefore a rule/rules have been broken. I have made my complaint and expect it to be dealt with in a fair and open manor.
I do however feel that the MT may close ranks on this matter, due to the nature of the complaint.
73
Steve
In reply to M3LMP:
Hi, Morgan, I rather think that your reply was really intended for me since Tom and Jimmy accessed Hope Mountain with permission.
Indeed nobody is above the law. However, sometimes it is necessary for people of good intent to risk sacrificing their freedom in order to get bad laws changed. I suggest you use Google and read up on the mass trespasses of the thirties to see what I mean.
As for walkers going where they should not be and being in danger from shooters, I am sure that you and your dad have exemplary gun discipline and would not put walkers into danger. Unlike the person who once put a rifle bullet not far above my head when I was on a Scottish Munro outside the stalking season!
73
Brian G8ADD
In reply to 2E0KPO:
Steve, you run a website that shows people how to avoid getting caught by speed cameras. Speeding motorists kill and mame many people each year. Before you preach and take a holier than thou attitude, take a good look in the mirror.
In reply to G8ADD:
Thank you Brian, but I cant change who the message replies to, I dont know how to do it, so my reply was for all those who think it is ok to break the law when they trespass.
I have been shooting almost all my life and I have quite a few trophies for clay shooting, but when we are out on the farm, we know where all the footpaths are and shoot away from them, but if we are shooting rabbits and crows we can be reaction shooting and this can put people in danger if they are where they shouldnt be.
My Dad and I have experienced a close one, a poacher was shooting at deer on some land we manage, and we were out with our cameras instead of rifles, the bullet struck just 20 feet from us !! but we were all camo and in a ditch luckily, phew !
I will read google google about trespass, thankyou.
Morgan
M3LMP
In reply to 2E0KPO:
Yes, my own personal opinion is that the hills should be open to everybody, with a little give and take - for instance I would not suggest that a walker should roam in front of a shooting party or through the middle of heather burning! It is always necessary to respect the needs of other users of the hills.
You are, of course, perfectly at liberty to make your complaint to the MT. However, unless your complaint contains evidence that you have not mentioned, my own personal feeling is that I will hear evidence from three people who were there that they operated with permission, and set against that I will hear the opinion of somebody who was not even there at the time that the three witnesses are lying. Now be dispassionate about it, in my shoes what would your conclusion be?
73
Brian G8ADD
In reply to MM0FMF:
I expected you to pop in and have a personal attack at me…
Drivers who drive at a speed that is inappropriate for the conditions or their skill can kill, not drivers that are speeding.
All too many people like to blame an accident being down to excess speed. Most accidents, deaths and injures are not caused by speed.
There is a big difference, please do your research you will learn that speed is not the killer everyone likes to think it is.
As for the “Before you preach and take a holier than thou attitude, take a good look in the mirror”. at what point have I been preaching, I have pointed out that I feel that a rule has been broken and I have requested that the matter is looked into.
Steve
I am not sure if my post was removed or I made an error posting it.
If it was removed then a reason would have been good. Just so I knew it was removed. I have reposted it in case it was an error on my behalf, if it was removed please accept my apologies for the repost and I guess I will get an email given me a reason as to why it was removed.
Time to close this thread perhaps?
In reply to G3CWI:
Cant you tell its raining, we all have to much time today…
Steve
In reply to G3CWI:
why, something to hide Richard?
Barry 2E0PXW
In reply to G8ADD:
Brian, there is an easy way to find out the truth, why don’t you personally take Mikes offer to accompany you to the land owner’s house and get the facts straight from the horses mouth?
That would clear up the issue once and for al. and get to get an activation in at the same time.
Steve
In reply to M3LMP:
Well said Morgan but you have obviously not been reading the papers re MP’s expenses 
***** No one is above the law of this country, no one ! *****
david
g6lkb
In reply to G3CWI:
Why do you want to close the thread before the truth has come out ? Is it not fair to all readers to be allowed to see the truth ?
Unless the messages get to be personal, like the one Andy FMF posted about me earlier but someone deleted, then I think the messages should be facts and nothing else and the thread allowed to continue.
Morgan
M3LMP
PS thats true Dave, how is Clifford after his big climb ? I am hoping to do Scawfell this summer with my Dad.
In reply to 2E0KPO:
No post has been removed.
73
Brian G8ADD