The art of managing the pileup is a topic that has been discussed on here and on other forums many times.
Yesterday I activated G/NP-003. The summit temperature was minus 4C and the activation lasted 63 minutes. Conditions yesterday were very good, most reports being real 599+. During that time I worked 50 stations in one of the largest pileups I have experienced on Sota. My rig is an FT857, not known for its receiver large signal performance and 75 year old “Old Cloth Ears” also suffers from poor large signal performance.
I did my best yesterday to work as many stations as possible and only went QRT when I could hear no other callers. I was saddened today to read a comment on the final spot for G0EVV/P from a QRP station (who I have often worked) who had failed to work me. I read that this was because he considered he had been “out gunned”. I am saddened because I always spend as much time as it takes to complete a QSO with a 229 report and with the exception of a flat battery, or risk to life and limb, I NEVER LEAVE THE PILEUP.
So is there anything I can learn from this to better manage the pileup?
For a number of reasons I am not a fan of working split for Sota.
Roy, G4SSH was a master at chasing the pileup, he always called off frequency. This technique spreads the stations, but also gives them their own signature.
Should I use the RIT to look for the stations who are not zero beating on my QRG, that might be all it takes to encourage chasers to spread out a bit?
I always give " /p" priority, Should I ask specifically for QRP stations to call?
Whatever you do, Dave, there will be times when people will be disappointed. Disappointment is part of the chasing game. A chaser isn’t just competing with other chasers, he is dealing with changes in conditions, random QSB and Sod’s Law. You operated until you could hear no more callers, what more can be asked of you?
I’m also a chaser at home… a pretty poorly equipped one and these limitations sometimes make me sad… when the activator doesn’t hear me… because I didn’t get a chance to use it when the conditions were good.
During the 10m challenge I missed a lot of completes because the summits were only activated on 10m… and not on a frequency where I could have reached them from a distance… that’s just the way it is… I didn’t act much differently as an activator sometimes.
As an activator I’m completely with you… you try what you can. Try to operate the QRP and /P stations… or those whose call sign fragments you hear and recognize and know that they are not among the “big guns”. But there are also moments at the summits when the conditions there are anything but comfortable and a longer activation becomes torture… and at some point I gave up in the middle of the pile up…
And every chaser who is also an activator… knows that!
Dave, you patiently worked the complete pileup untill no one called. If a qrp chaser considers being “outgunned” he lacked the patience to wait till the big guns were used up. Qrp requires cleverness and patience. You cannot substitute the patience of a chaser, when he doesnt have enough. Do not try to, it is his resposibility.
I think, it is good practice to keep calling cq for a few minutes after the pileup ceased. But you know that.
An occasional call of ‘dx only’ can be beneficial. I’ve probably had more occasions I’ve patiently waited for an EU or NA pileup to end only to watch signals fade as propagation windows pass, than I have successful dx chases.
But as others say, patience and failure are part of the chasing game. If it was always easy it would be no fun!
You lasted much longer on the summit than this youngster (62) would have done. I live about 10 miles and 400m below the summit and it was cold enough walking the dogs! I think there are a lot of lucky chasers out there! (Sorry I know this isn’t particularly helpful but you do seem to have activated with a lot of determination!)
I worked 67 chasers on TW-003 in January one Sunday, last year. 67 chasers in 80 minutes including a band change. My average appears to be about one call a minute - CW and I use a small SW-1b.
I generally take them as they come. The loudest ones first if i have to otherwise some keep calling and blot out the quieter ones. This may be because they simply cannot hear the quiet ones.
Partial calls, I just repeat the bit I hear “On7 ? K” which normally works - and speeds things along.
If I hear that some of the calls are from one country, say if more than one have the prefix DL, I’ll just send 'DL only K". But once or twice I’ve done this and heard complete silence as it was then obvious that no one was using the prefix I thought I’d heard.!! Like you if I hear a /p amongst the callers then its "/P k " sometimes more than once to ensure the other chasers have got the message.
And I continue until its gone and generally put out a few CQs and depending on the weather I’ll pack up or stay around. Sometimes if I’m freezing my things off and/or everythings starting to get wet I might call a halt. I’ve been lucky, `i think thats only had to happen once or twice.
As an occasional chaser using 10w max, (I must crank my Ten-Tec at home up to 25w!!!.) I’ll try and call in a momentary gap in calls or simply sit around until its gone quiet/er and call then.
If I learned or read some negative remark about my operating, then I’d either agree with them if it was true, or simply think to my self, "I did my best` and you weren’t sitting up a hill or mountain coping with the cold, wind noise (not mine) or wet conditions.
I"m not sure there is anything you could do differently. If there is `i’d be glad to know too.
Hi David, I’m a similar age to you and I second Paul’s comment about your dedication to your chasers. I doubt I could have lasted that long in that temperature. It doesn’t seem to matter how many layers of clothes I put on, with my face and hands exposed logging and keying, my body temperature drops just sitting there at the summit.
I assume the 63 minutes was one pile-up on one band - remarkable! I too work through a pile-up until there are no more callers but I wouldn’t like to have been in your situation where the pile-up goes on and on long after I’m feeling cold and miserable.
I know it’s frustrating for QRP chasers not getting heard but all chasers need to recognize how vulnerable activators (especially elderly ones like us) can get in wintry conditions after a relatively short time.
I’ve been avoiding activations recently with wind chill temperatures below zero. I’m sure most folk are grateful you are still braving the elements.
I’m a young man and it’s tough this time of year for the same reasons. I question if the extra 3 points are worth it while I’m up there, but by the time I’m home I can’t wait to do it again. Medication would be cheaper I think.
I’m not sure there is. It sounds like you make every effort to work everyone who calls within the limits of your own personal safety and comfort. It’s obviously a shame to hear that someone missed out, but you can only work what you hear!
I will occasionally ask if there are any qrp or s2s directly but often with a pileup like that you are as much dragged along for the ride as the chasers, and I often forget until it is all over.
Your dedication should be applauded, without sacrificing too much yourself!
I created a big pileup recently doing a POTA activation (dodgy knees atm). Lots of European stations, I ended up calling the countries from north to south through Northern Europe. I had one guy break in out of turn a Swiss chap, in fairness I would likely have forgot to call him in so no harm done.
I was witness to your pile up David and it was HUGE! I called on, slightly above and slightly below your frequency for fully 20 minutes without success before I had to go out. My 10 watts was just not enough to get through. When I switched off I could still hear at least 4 or 5 callers at the end of every contact… and sometimes not at the end of a contact! To read that you handled all that in a temperature of minus 4C, well as they say, “more power to your elbow”.
In these situations there is always someone that will lose out for one reason or another. Making contact with an activator is never guaranteed when chasing. Please don’t let it bother you. Just keep on doing what you’re doing.
With a total of 161 activations (every other month by the looks of it), the QRP’er will have another chance fairly soon to work the summit. There is no guarantee that propagation is reciprocal. We might hear a station, but they can’t hear us. When I’m activating and have worked the required amount and nobody is chasing me anymore, I look for other activators for a S2S or P2P, but with QRP it’s hard to break the pile-up from homestations or my signal doesn’t reach the intended station due to propagation. So I try a few times and then can’t be bothered and look for the next one.
Pile-up management could indeed be to call specifically for QRP or S2S only, but chance is that a lot of the newbie chasers only recognise callsigns and just keep on transmitting. You could try and limit by region or number in the callsign. But whatever you do, you will always have people who will be disappointed.
Congratulations David on a successful and very cold activation. As a relative local I was able to work you early on, probably before the pile up built up.
Acerbic comments from Chasers complaining about not working an activator on SOTAWatch, or indeed on any DX cluster should be ignored. I’m sure you worked many QRP stations yesterday, and we usually have a good path into Poland, so I suggest the Chaser concerned should put more effort into making his antenna more efficient if he wants to use QRP from home and be effective.
You stayed a lot longer than we usually do, especially on very cold days. We’ve also (sometimes/rarely) seen snarky comments on the spots when stations haven’t been able to chase us, but our view is that we can’t work everyone. If people chose to chase using QRP only (especially on SSB), that is their choice, but they need to appreciate that on a summit when 10 people are all calling us at once with their 100w, often the only/easiest/most efficient option is to work the loudest stations first.
We’ve found recently that even calling for specific stations only doesn’t work, so for example saying ‘F4?’ or ‘G0?’ only, still results in a handful of unrelated callsigns replying. We just try to work them all as quickly and fairly as we can, with me often writing a few callsigns at once for Nic to then contact in order.
One thing that definitely stops the pileup is if Nic hands her microphone to me. Then everyone buggers off, as they clearly have no interest in chasing me!
There is a general feeling, consensus is perhaps too strong a word, that split operation is not necessary or desirable in SOTA operation. I don’t entirely agree with that: with my CW DXer’s hat on I know that split operation substantially speeds up the QSO rate when there are more than just a few callers, especially these days when people seem to call incessantly, regardless of who the DX is trying to work. It spreads the pileup and, most importantly, gets the callers off the DX frequency where they can QRM, or even completely swamp the DX.
I would say yes, certainly. On-the-ball chasers will work out what you’re doing and that will indeed help to spread the pileup. You might also catch a few callers that can’t net accurately! In essence, using the RIT in this way is split operation, just not as overtly as the DX that is working splits of a few kHz. You’re just wobbling your Rx frequency around a bit! Anything that helps you to work all your chasers before it gets too cold up there is good in my book.
Like you if I hear a /p amongst the callers then its "/P k " sometimes more than once to ensure the other chasers have got the message.
or wet conditions.
