just been sent this video via our facebook group,- YouTube
and wonder if the us have different rules to us,
Summits on the Air – General Rules
Page 11 of 17 Document S0.1
3.7.1 Criteria for a valid Expedition
For an Expedition to be considered valid, the following criteria must be met:
3. The method of final access to the Summit must be non-motorised. Operations must not
be in, or in the vicinity of a motor vehicle. No part of the station may be connected in any
way to the motor vehicle.
6. All equipment must be operated from a portable power source (batteries, solar cells, etc).
Operation is expressly forbidden using permanently installed power sources or fossil-fuel
generators of any kind.
just been sent this video via our facebook group,- YouTube
Most likely not read the rules.
thats what i was thinking richard,
If you would watch the other 2 videos regarding that activation you would see that in fact the rules were followed on subsequent positions.
No it’s still invalid he was operating from inside his vehicle!!
The AM (K2YTF) has been notified and he said he would get in touch with them! But you gotta admit, nice setups! Some work went into that operation. Bunch of good 'ol boys who probably didn’t know the rule.
Looks good fun - but it certainly is not SOTA. I have now watched all four videos, and not one of the situations shown is acceptable for SOTA. The good news is that after they have deleted all their logs from the Database, they have a good excuse to go up there again and try to do a proper SOTA activation!
There are 2 other videos. One clearly shows inside of a shelter. That isn’t inside of a vehicle. Inside of a shelter is a good SOTA activation.
I too watched all videos. Now if they were attached to the vehicle I didn’t see that…but under that red pop up tent isn’t IN the vehicle.
But he didn’t make the final ascent by non motorised means - and he’s much too close to the vehicle to not be considered “in the vicinity of a motor vehicle”
The rules don’t say how far the final ascent needs to be. If a person drives up to a peak, walks 40 feet away and about 2 feet in elevation…that’s within the rules. Nothing in the rules state how far one must ascend. Secondly in the vicinity of a motor vehicle is different for everyone. If you asked 40 people what that meant you would get 50 responses.
I totally understand the “spirit” of the rules…but the spirit of the rules are usually unenforceable so you have to go by te letter of the rules. Besides I thought these were guidelines and not rules.
No, they are rules.
The SOTA management team (in the person of Tom M1EYP) has already commented higher up this thread, he says “I have now watched all four videos, and not one of the situations shown is acceptable for SOTA”
So what was the power supply being used for all the gear in the tent then? I suppose that would determine the absolute status of that part of the operation. Yet the vehicle is within touching distance! There might not be hard evidence that no part of the station is supported by the vehicle in video 3 - but there certainly isn’t any hard evidence that the station is independent of the vehicle either.
However, what is clear is that these ops are not trying to pull a fast one and “cheat” at SOTA. They just assumed that doing any sort of radio from a summit with a reference would be SOTA. They hadn’t read the rules (which is always a good idea IMO).
The submitted Database logs show four hours of operation from two stations, so it does very much like non-SOTA qualifying, and the logs will need to be withdrawn.
There was a battery on the table in the tent in one shot, but nothing like enough to run an IC706 at 100W for that length of time.
I just went to the home page and clicked on the link that says “Guidelines for activators”. I couldn’t find one that says Rules for activators.
Secondly since it is guidelines it is arbitrary of any management team to chose to accept it as a legit activation or not on any activation. Does that mean they are right? No of course not…why…because they were not there.
I know many of you will disagree but until such times as actual distances are placed in the guidelines…such as having to be within 80 vertical feet of the of the peak…then within the vicinity of a vehicle is arbitrary.
The management team has to accept that the guidelines are being followed and no assumptions can be believed. That’s the way it should be but this is the internet and I don’t own this site so the management team can be king and arbitrary when they want to be.
I’m not complaining or knocking the management team…I am saying these are guidelines and not rules.
Guidelines are guidlines - rules are rules - Summits on the Air
Incidentally I have recategorised this.
It would also be nice if the videos were:
b. re-titled so as to stress that these were not valid SOTA activations under the rules of the scheme.
We’ve seen these sort of things before and, as in the case here, it is mostly a misunderstanding and lack of rule reading by the participants.
Unfortunately any newcomers seeing these videos may just decide to copy the approach as it’s obviously the way it’s done
The same thing happens with the Flickr group where, e.g. T Jursky, regularly contributes photos showing huge antenna arrays and operating form a vehicle.
Whilst there is nothing wrong with his activity (as it is not SOTA), the fact that it’s “advertised” on the SOTA Flickr group, could leave others, unfamiliar with the rules, that it is acceptable and normal operating practice.
My $0.02 worth.
Just to be clear about this, the General Rules say:
3.1 The Programme does not accept operation from a motor vehicle.
126.96.36.199 The method of final access to the Summit must be non-motorised. Operations must not be in, or in the vicinity of a motor vehicle. No part of the station may be connected in any way to the motor vehicle.
188.8.131.52 All equipment must be operated from a portable power source (batteries, solar cells, etc.) Operation is expressly forbidden using permanently installed power sources or fossil-fuel generators of any kind.
That would be a good summit for a mountain bike activation, at least they followed the rules and didn’t use generator.
There is another rule in 3.7.1, #5: “All equipment must be carried to the site by the Activator team.”
Unloading stuff from the car is not carrying it to the site. Operating position #3 does not seem to be connected to the vehicle, but the operator and the vehicle are clearly at the same site. All that equipment was carried to the site in a vehicle.
I did the same thing on my first “try” at a SOTA activation… didn’t read the rules, video’d it… put it on youtube SOTA SCOTT MTN Activation - YouTube
But when I found out I didn’t follow the rules, I removed my logs, contacted those that logged me, and put up notes on the youtube video letting everyone know it didn’t count - check out 12:08 in the video for my note about it not being counted.