Today is one of those days when I need to ask the guidance of my peers, because I see a discrepancy between what many people are doing and what it says in The Documents, specifically in T/R 61-01 (extract below).
Case in point: yesterday I activated VY2/PE-002 on Prince Edward Island as VY/G5MUP, because that’s how I interpreted the recommendation in T/R 61-01. Other activators have been using VY2 as a prefix, some use VY2 as a suffix, while others just use their own call from another region. We can’t all be right, so is it a case of:
The document is a recommendation, don’t sweat the small stuff. Or
Somebody is doing it wrong, and the right way is: XXX
Personally I’d prefer to use VY/GD5MUP because in my eyes I’d be complying with The Recommendation (hmmm … is that where “TR” comes from?) and because you can’t find me on QRZ when I’m using a prefix unless you also include the D regional identifier. Probably should have set my page up differently, but I digress …
Corrections / advice / abuse welcome as always - cheers!
I imagine the activators you saw using the VY suffix were visiting from the US. Confusingly enough, the US/Canada agreement calls for a suffix unlike the CEPT use of a prefix.
VY/G5MUP is the way to go. You drop the RSL from your own call, which as you know, is now optional back home.
And, as @G4TGJ Richard said, set up a new QRZ.COM page (if you can be bothered). I generally don’t, unless I have a completely new callsign issued. Keeps ‘em guessing!
You don’t need to create a new page. From the “Update the basic callsign data” page you can add aliases and previous callsigns. There’s also another page where you can add special suffix and prefix callsigns. So here you could add VY/G5MUP.
Thanks for explaining the reason for the discrepancy.
That’s what I did and it set up a new logbook for me with M/ for operating in the UK.
I contacted QRZ support when I got my Class 1 license and changed from EI6JHB to EI3LH. They did the updates for me and kept my old callsign logbook assigned to my updated account.
I don’t bother making logbooks specifically for /P, /M (or if I was lucky enough, /AM or /MM). All my radio operating is 100% outside portable anyway.
The question of whether the country code of the country you are visiting comes before or after your home call sign depends on which agreement you are operating under.
In the case of CEPT TR61/01, the prefix comes first - it is the one shown in the document and for UK hams, it’s the “actual” licence call sign (i.e. without the RSL). For CEPT 61/01 UK hams must have a full licence.
If, however, you are visiting a country which is NOT a signatory to the CEPT agreement, then the rules in any older agreements apply, and in many cases, these require the visited country prefix to be after, not before, your home call sign. Many (but not all) of the Non-CEPT agreements will require a formal application to operate; you can’t simply arrive and operate for up to 3 months as with CEPT 61/01.
These older individual country-to-country agreements can sometimes also cover Intermediate and even Foundation licence holders; however, the CEPT arrangements currently apply to UK full licence holders only. There are CEPT agreements both at the Intermediate (CEPT Novice) and, to a lesser extent, Foundation (CEPT Entry level) licence classes; however, Ofcom has not signed up to these agreements, and therefore they do not apply to UK amateurs.
Between the US and Canada, at least for full licences, they have both a local country-country agreement and the CEPT one, so you may hear stations with the prefix before or after their callsign, depending on which agreement they are operating under.
Thanks for the responses everyone, and apologies for my tardy reply - been quite busy travelling and planning the next hop. Nova Scotia was ace and so was Prince Edward Island, now we’re headed inland and slowly working our way back to Massachusetts. So today’s prefix is VE.
Yeah, thought so. Thanks Fraser. That magic “D” RSL is worth about 8 dB though, so I’m letting it go reluctantly.
There’s a limit to the number you can add though. I already have G5MUP as a secondary (because I want GD5MUP to be the primary) as well as my foundation and intermediate callsigns, plus a couple of special event NVOs which I thought were important at the time. With the amount of travelling I do it’s just not practical to keep “retiring” my last-used alias and adding the current prefix as a new alias.
Good, innit? Wise man once said: The best thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from.
It would be neat if QRZ would recognise the format [prefix] / [alias-or-primary] / [suffix] instead of only [prefix] / [primary] / [suffix]. In other words, you can look me up as VY/GD5MUP/P but you won’t find me under VY/G5MUP/P, even though I have G5MUP as an alias to my main page. Probably not something most people care about.
Use your national callsign, allocated by your administration, together with the prefix or suffix “ZL”. This is to be separated from your national callsign by the character “/” (telegraphy), or the word “stroke” (telephony).
If you’re visiting any of these places, use the following prefixes or suffixes:
Hi Paul, you were operating under the US-Canada country-to-country agreement, not the CEPT one, hence you were using VY2 as your suffix (as specified in that agreement). UK visitors to Canada or the US operate under CEPT 61/01 in which case they need to put the prefix before the home call.
You could have also operated as VY/W6PNG - in that case, you would have been operating under the CEPT agreement, to which both Canada and the US are signatories.
The original treaty between the US and Canada, which specifies using a suffix, is still in effect. And, at least in my understanding, still takes precedence until it gets officially changed.
However, both countries have stated that, in practice, either a suffix or prefix is acceptable identification. But for other operators under CEPT, the prefix is correct.
I wanted to allay any fears on the part of the original poster that he isn’t potentially rubbing shoulders with North American cowboys who randomly pick call sign formats based on beverages from the chuck wagon.
I’d always default to our local rules especially as I’m unclear to what extent the US is a signatory (don’t think it is) or fully compliant participant in CEPT. I write this as I discovered the hard way that when considering spending more time in the UK, I was unable to garner my extra (highest) US callsign into any kind of UK call sign and eventually sat all then exams over 12-18 months to get M0SNA. Clearly, the US is not on a par with the UK nor Germany as the UK and Germany are to each other under CEPT.
Separately, I’m very sure that under FCC rules and possibly qualified by being a citizen or whatever that I can’t operate in the USA as M0SNA/W (or whatever the correct format is). While we haven’t quite reached “police our streets, not our tweets”, I’d rather not have to interact with the FCC.
