Cheated by /P in GMA, FF or similar non SOTA

If a /p station does not end their call /p, they are violating their license conditions. How then, should they answer in a way that does not give them an undue advantage (in your opinion).
Matt

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Hi Matt,
That depends upon the country. In many countries, the /P is now optional. But point taken - for countries where /P is mandatory …

73 Ed.

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Hi Matt,
If a ham is signing with /P but not activating SOTA and he successfully breaks the pileup, that’s perfect, hats off to him, but I’d expect a standard exchange in our QSO, not receiving several references from other programmes he is working on and activating but I’m not and I never requested.
Sometimes I’ve been chased by some hams signing /P, we had a standard QSO and when I asked for his SOTA reference, he responded NO SOTA. And that’s absolutely fine and perfect for me.

73,

Guru

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I completely disagree with the suggestion that /P should be linked solely to SOTA. I don’t actively participate in any other programmes such as HEMA, FF or even WOTA; but being a keen SOTAist I understand that others have their favoured programmes and I am happy to support them and work them. In fact I’m happy to work anyone. Of course I love getting SOTA S2S, because we have a shared understanding; but SOTA isn’t better or more important than any other radio activity.

However, I do confess to feeling that there is a world of difference between my version of /P (carrying everything on my back with leg power) and the licence definition - the vehicle based high power set ups with towers, beams, generators etc! /P? Really!

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Dear friends,

what would be life without emotions?
But we should not overestimate them. :slight_smile:

It helps to understand the other side.

So what is the difference between SOTA and GMA?

  • in SOTA only SOTA to SOTA contacts are valid S2S contacts
  • in GMA all possible contacts between SOTA and GMA peeks are valid S2S contacts…
    So from the others perspective GMA to SOTA is a valid S2S contact…

We often tend to rate situations whitout completely understanding them.
We often see it from our perspective… which is normal, we cannot know everything…

But lets be open and give everyone the chance for a (S2S) Qso even if it seem weird from our perspective… After all it is just a hobby that we all should enjoy.

Looking forward to many QSOs from whatever program…

Best 73s
Ingo

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There’s no bigotry to be had, in my case (I’m not a very active activator) I’m happy to do QSOs with all of my chasers when I’m on a summit.
Guru @EA2IF if you are a little curious take a look at the GoGreen XOTA program and you will be able to see since 2020 (start of the program) how many non Sota (GMA & WFF) you have contacted!
It is however very often SOTA activators which are on peaks with multiple references.

We can understand that you are irritated by the practice of certain operators, the best is to do what you usually do, send them an email :wink:

To avoid the many 44s or others, it would be wise not to put double SOTA and WFF alerts and spots…

And as Yoda said “may the force be with you” :yin_yang:

73 Éric

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I don’t think this suggestion has ever been made in this thread, so there’s no point in discussing this here, as it would divert the subject.

Of course not and nobody ever suggested/insinuated such thing in this thread.

Indeed… but it’s the same if you compare a base station with a barefoot rig at 100W onto a dipole versus some other big gun’s station with AMP, big towers, several phased yagis, etc… That’s life, rich and fun in its variety.

73,

Guru

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:+1:

Question: do a GMA activator need to give his GMA reference to the other party in the QSO for his contact to be valid?
In SOTA, sending the reference is not mandatory for a QSO to be valid, even during a S2S QSO. In fact I have started to not send it during a S2S QSO when I’m chased by a well known activator whom I know he is having my spot on SW3. Of course, I’ll always send my reference if requested.

73,

Guru

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Hi Éric,

But, perhaps those hams were activating SOTA at the same time and that was the purpose of my QSO with them. I never call a GMA or WFF activator because those are programmes I don’t work at the moment.

And that’s absolutely fine with me, as long as they don’t give all those references in the middle of the pileup to the SOTA activator who has not requested them.

Be the force with you too, Éric.

73,

Guru

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Hi Ed,
I think you have it correct. I’m sorry that Guru feels cheated but I think he should ask if SOTA has sole right to the /P. In VK we will call S2S in CW or “Summit to Summit” as you do. The activator will usually quickly work the S2S and then return to the parks and holiday portables if there are any. In VK every contact counts and I would record in my paper log the park or beach or HEMA summit the portable was at regardless of whether I was a participant. I wish I could be in a holiday house right now. But lockdown continues.

73
Ron
VK3AFW

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We should always do that too here in Europe. Some operators do, but not many others, who rely solely on the /P /P /P and that’s why some of these /P take advantage and pass over the whole pileup for a non SOTA to SOTA contact.

73,

Guru

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I rarely post on this reflector these days, and it has been a number of years since I last activated anything (SOTA, GMA, DMF or whatever). However, I am surprised, and a little disappointed, with the strong emotions expressed by some here. My method when activating is to listen for “full calls” only, and to pick out one or two of the loudest to work after each CQ. Those sending /P, s2s, SOTA or other non-callsigns are just ignored. No doubt my system will be challenged by many on here, but it works for me.
73 de Les, G3VQO

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And how is a potential station /p to know that a given activator participates in only one program, because a given summit often has many references to other programs? The assumption that he knows this is utopia. For many activators, this is also important and desirable information.

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Si son /P, tienen todo el derecho a usar ese sufijo. Si escucho (como cazador) una llamada /P, dejo de llamar hasta que hayan terminado, sean SOTA o no. Lo siento Guru, tal vez la traducción esté obstaculizando ando la comprensi ón completa, pero mantengo todo lo que dije en mi último post.

I hope that said what I meant! Apologies for any errors :grin:

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I am glad that my answer to this topic produce such response. It may clear some things in our heads.

Must see also that tone of the responses changed after my answer.

By the way, I dont work ft8. Everybody knows this, even on sota reflector. Thats all my picture states. I hope

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Well, I think I’ve already explained well in detail my position, my feeling and I’m going to have to leave now for a series of tests (scan) and treatments at the hospital.
I’ll keep welcoming all chasers into my log with or without /P.
All I’d like to ask to those chasers making QSO with me is to please don’t give me all kind of references you may be activating if I don’t request them. Even the SOTA reference may not be always requested durng a S2S contact because, if I have cell coverage at the summit I’m activating, I use to have SW3 on my smartphone screen and I already have the SOTA references of the activators on the air at that time. This is just to save time and maximize the chances for the other chasers to quickly make the QSO, as well as to reduce the time needed by the activator to work the whole pileup.

It surely was an enjoyable discussion.

Best 73 to all,

Guru

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Hope you will be well Guru

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A single /P from non-SOTA stations, such as when I am operating from a holiday cottage, or the countryside (such on on the G/LD weekend) and not on a SOTA is acceptable. The sending of repeated /P/P/P or S2S when NOT on a SOTA summit I would deem unfair and trying to gain unfair advantage over ones peers and as we say in England this is (“not cricket” OM). I don’t like stations using the /QRP suffix when calling and never return the prefix in my exchange. I don’t like stations sending a partial callsign either, such as their suffix and not their prefix together. This is fairly common on phone but not CW.

Good on you for raising this Guru and clarifying further what you meant with the naughty repeated /P/P/Ps being sent to obtain unfair advantage!

73 Phil G4OBK

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Yes , it becommes too anoying … there is no Ham Spirit, I completely agree !
73’s Jean

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Don’t think that GMA activators have to continuously give their reference. It is similar to SOTA. Usually I post my actvations and if requested give the references. I am active in at least 4 programmes (SOTA, GMA, COTA, WWFF,…). However, WWFF boosts the number of contacts significantly. At least 50% of the contacts are WWFF. So no breath holding anymore until the 4 QSOs are reached.

Combining them can be an advantage. Although I am not tracking COTA, WWFF, etc. I’m posting the QSOs into their systems.

Live and let live… (don’t know if the translation is right) :slight_smile:

73
Ingo

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