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Cheated by /P in GMA, FF or similar non SOTA

Either as an activator or as a chaser, I personally feel cheated by those signing with a /P who are pretending to have and actually having priority in the pileup for a SOTA to SOTA contact when they are not activating SOTA and they are only activating a GMA, FF or just in a portable holiday location.

When I’m chasing, I usually wait and let the /P callsigns priority for them to be able to work the SOTA to SOTA contact. When I’ve done that and later I find the chaser I’ve given priority is not activating SOTA, but GMA, FF or just transmitting from a holidays QTH, I simply feel cheated by him and that’s something I don’t enjoy.

When I’m activating, I usually ask my whole pileup to standby and give priority to a /P because I hope we’re going to make a SOTA to SOTA contact. When I’ve done that and later I find the chaser I’ve given priority is not activating SOTA, but GMA, FF or just transmitting from a holidays QTH, I simply feel cheated by him and that’s something I don’t enjoy. This happened to me during today’s activation, the /P activator had me several times asking the whole pileup to stand-by for him to go ahead first and when he finally did, I felt cheated because he was not in SOTA and he gave me a GMA and a FF reference, which I didn’t even write down, because those are programmes I’m not interested in and I’m not working at the moment. This operator not only cheated me, but also to all the pileup standing by for him to have the priority for a SOTA to SOTA contact. I very much want SOTA to SOTA contacts and any /P or S2S call for such purpose will always be more than welcome, but I don’t care about GMA, FF or any other activities, so, please, try not to waste our time by sending me those GMA/FF references because I don’t want them, I don’t write them down and they get just lost in the air.

I just wanted to express how I feel about this /P cheatting in the hope that someone will think about it and hopefully some will stop doing it.

73,

Guru

8 Likes

Hi Guru,
In my opinion, the common courtesy as Chaser or Activator is whenever possible to give priority to the following sequence:

  1. S2S contacts (where I interpret this as SOTA-to-SOTA as others don’t count for SOTA points).
  2. All portable or mobile stations - as they generally will be running less power and less efficient antennas. (these can be HEMA, POTA, GMA, COTA etc. etc. or just out on holiday /P).
  3. Home stations.

What I hear happening when I am activating though is that many stations continue calling after I have already gone back to another station - they can say they didn’t hear but it happens all to often now.

If they hear a station calling S2S and don’t want to let them get a call in, the least the home station can do is to inform the activator that there is an S2S calling so that the activator can listen for them.

Unfortunately even when I call for S2S only, or Portable/Mobile only or VK/ZL only, or whatever selection, there are some stations that just keep calling and calling, even after I have started a contact one of the requested stations.

It’s simply bad manners as well as bad operating practice.

73 Ed.

13 Likes

Hi Guru,

I always think when you are activating a SOTA summit and you hear another SOTA activation taking place, I always think that it is best rather than just /P, you say your callsign and then summit to summit which will the other SOTA activator will know that you are activating a SOTA summit as there’s loads of /P stations out there who are not activating SOTA summits. There no point saying summit to summit when trying to chase to SOTA station if your are activating a HEMA summit/WOTA summit/GMA summit etc.

Jimmy M0HGY

6 Likes

Yes, Ed, that’s very frustraring. As I said a few minutes ago in other thread, it seems like some chasers just don’t listen to us activators and what we are saying, they just call when they hear a gap or when they hear others starting to call.
Similar to those drivers exchanging text messages while driving and finally having or causing accidents.
It’s definitely poor operating…

73,

Guru

2 Likes

I agree, Jimmy,
In North-America, they use S2S to draw the activator’s attention and I’d like this to be adopted in Europe rather than /P /P /P.
However, he who wants to cheat, will still keep doing it by sending S2S and then revealing that he is not on a SOTA buy a GMA summit.
The problem is the cheating mentality, which demonstrates a complete lack or respect for the activator and the rest of chasers in the pileup.

73,

Guru

5 Likes

Guru,

When reading your problem description, I can only shake my head and swallow it empty: How can you as a Ham radio operator be so arrogant, aloof and disparaging towards participants in other portable radio programs?

Could that be attributed to your southern temperament or did you just have a pitch-black day today?

Maybe you’d better get a good night’s sleep and then think about it again.

73, Heinz

20 Likes

Hi Guru,

your post shocked me, I understand it’s your personal opinion, but I can’t agree with you at all!
On the contrary, I respect everyone who is / P, regardless of whether it is GMA, WWFF, WCA, everyone has made some effort and is happy that he can enjoy such a wonderful hobby as HAM radio.
That’s why / P stations will always be welcome with me, and they will always be given priority over others who call with the comfort of home!
This, in turn, is just my personal opinion, and you don’t have to agree with it either, but I won’t affect it anymore.

Good health, and all the best!

73 David OK4KOP

19 Likes

Hey Guru

I understand you a little bit… I too have the expectation of a s2s when calling with /p… and am a little bit disappointed when this is not the case.
But in the vast majority of cases it is!

I don’t know the rules of the other game types (GMA; COTA; IOTA; WWFF;…) that well, but I think that they also have to get their qso numbers to have a valid activation. And why shouldn’t they be helped to do that? especially since they are /p stations that usually do qrp. And a station with qrp would also be a priority for me!

Today I had a call /p and it was a COTA (i don’t know which… i’m not interested) … it was a difficult qso with a lot of repetition. The station was qrp and very weak. nevertheless, at the end everything was in the log… and that was a success!.. and an exciting qso and was fun.

73 Armin

9 Likes

Heinz,
I’m not disparaging at all towards participants in other portable radio programmes. I absolutely respect everybody’s wishes to participate in any programme they want to. I participate in SOTA and that’s as good as any other’s choice to participate in whatever other programme they want to.
What I’m saying is that I don’t think it’s fair breaking through a SOTA activation pile up by sending /P /P /P, thus obtaining priority from everybody in the pileup and then finding he is activating a GMA, which is not a SOTA to SOTA contact, the only reason why everybody gave him priority.
It’s not a question of having a pitch-black day today nor having a good sleep tonight. In fact I had a great day today activating a nice summit in the sunshine with Alain F5ODQ and I had a very good sleep last night, the same I think I’ll have tonight. This is something I already wrote about in some other thread some time ago, so it’s definitely something I deeply feel and I wanted to express it.
You can disagree, of course, but, as I have explained the reasons why I feel cheated when other chasers do what I’ve explained, I’d like you to explain why you don’t feel cheated, why do you think it’s correct what they do.
Then, I’d like you to explain me how would you feel if you are stopped in a traffic jam, then you see a car placing a blue flashing light with a magnet on top of the car roof to get priority, overtake everybody and get out of the jam, to finally discover that there was not any emergency at all and it was just someone cheating with a copy of a police flashing light.

73,

Guru

4 Likes

Hi Guru,
I can understand, but where is the Ham Spirit when operating portable ? Personally I do like SOTA as well as GMA… and WFF…and WCA…
It must be understood that some people are no longer physically capable of activating SOTA summits, even though they like to do portable traffic.

To prevent this problem, perhaps one solution consists to call you with “F6GLZ/P” when activating GMA,WFF,WCA and with “/P” when actually activating SOTA, and then attempting to exchange the SOTA refs…
Why not ?
73’s Jean

6 Likes

Me too, absolutely, even if there’s someone in a holiday home base station signing as /P, he deserves and has all my respect. What I don’t find respectful towards the others (activator and chasers) in a SOTA pileup is calling /P /P /P /P just to obtain the priority in the pileup when not actually in a SOTA summit.
Of course, my post was to express my feel about this question. That’s my personal opinion. You can agree or not. You can express it or not. Anyone can express it or not.
As far as I understand, that’s what this Reflector is for. Exchanging opinions, experiences, feelings, etc.
All the best to you too.
73,

Guru

4 Likes

Since these misunderstandings always arise, especially with cw, simply by giving /p, it might be a good idea to have a more precise call.
In ssb, the “summit to summit” is quite clear. It is clear that it is not an island, a castle or anything else. (ok - GMA would still be possible, although a little bit cheeky to call a SOTA station with it).

Maybe you should also have something more precise in cw. Maybe two “s” (for summit to summit) with a short pause in between. That would be a quick and clear sign.
But will something like that catch on?
Nevertheless, /p or /qrp would be the next priority for me.

73 Armin

4 Likes

Hi Jean,
To me, it would be as simple as calling S2S for SOTA to SOTA contact only to draw the activator’s attention and forget about /P /P /P /P.
If someone is operating portable and he is signing CALLSIGN/P, that’s perfect, but if they are in a SOTA pileup, I can’t understand why they send their GMA, WFF or whatever other reference if it hasn’t been requested by the SOTA activator.
If the SOTA activator has requested for that info, then there’s no problem at all with him sending it, of course.

73,

Guru

4 Likes

We don’t need to invent anything as it already exists and it’s widely used in North-America. Simply S2S: three dots, two dots and three dashes, three dots
BTW, it was great working you S2S today, Armin.

73,

Guru

3 Likes

Hello Guru @EA22IF

From my side anyone who is portable QRV like any other chaser is very welcome in the log. SOTA is a playground of many ways to be portable QRV and in my opinion all of it has its justification.

I have often heard “Summit 2 Summit” when calling CQ. During the exchange, there was a GMA reference. That’s perfectly fine with me. It is a pity that it is not a SOTA s2s, but also a SOTA 2 GMA is interesting and nice and is logged correctly. Also here is someone sitting on a mountain somewhere and radioing with you :slight_smile: :goat:

Otherwise you would have to explicitly call “cq only sota chaser and activator”. But I think that would only be half as exciting :wink:

See you soon in a QSO Guru @EA2IF :wave: :+1:

73 Marcel DM3FAM

6 Likes

So please tell me why I have received summit to summit calls from SOTA activators when I have been activating HEMA summits? The shoe is then on the other foot as so to speak.

I have no issue whatsoever with S2S calls from anyone operating portable in a comparable scheme to SOTA such as HEMA, WOTA and GMA. The effort required to activate such summits is often as great as that to activate a SOTA summit and that needs to be respected.

10 Likes

Hi Marcel,
Exactly the same for me, they are all more than welcome in my log. What I don’t enjoy is when they call /P /P /P /P to obtain priority and when they send an unrequested reference which has nothing to do with the SOTA programme going on in that specific activation/pileup. I’ve many times had GMA activators calling me during an activation and I have no problem at all with them unless they call /P /P /P /P they get priority from me and all the other chasers in the pile up for a non SOTA reference.
Everybody should have it very clear. All ham radio operators have my full respect as long as they respect me and the others.
I also hope to QSO with you soon, Marcel.
73,

Guru

2 Likes

Hello Guru @EA2IF

I have to agree with you there, of course. If someone calls in “several times” /P on purpose just to shorten the waiting time for a QSO then that is of course not nice. No matter what or which reference he brings along.

But we know each other quite well… /P is interesting and is usually given priority. How one or the other uses it is up to the individual.

But I understand how you mean it.

73 Marcel DM3FAM

2 Likes

Hi Guru!

After reading so many opinions I conclude to " SOTA".
A SOTA activator for S2S schould
call only SOTA instead of /P, meaning that it calls from a SOTA zone.
That’s the solution for your problem.

But others have different prospectives! All /P stations are welcome!

Difficulties are to make us stronger!

Great QSOing you on 15 meters today!

73 Christos, SV2OXS.

3 Likes

Hi Friends,

I am happy to log every station /P, however when I activate SOTA and the chasing station /P gives me ref FF - this is a waste of my time and pushing chasers to wait, maybe sometimes lost a chance of QSO.
What Guru writes about will better illustrate the case when as an activator I could hear /P from more than one station, it can be 2 or even 3 different /P and I ask all chasers QRX to give the green light to /P, then it turns out that the loudest of them is /P FF, so he is logged first, and during QSO with him, another station /P that is SOTA may stop to copy me and we will not log expected S2S.
If one /P calls, it’s OK, but if /P FF takes S2S chance /P SOTA then I fully understand and share the Guru’s irritation.
In situations when I hear more than one /P, I try to ask: S2S? Sometimes the answer is silence …

73, Jarek

6 Likes