I happened to notice today a couple of activations spotted using the prefixes IK7/homecall and SV5/homecall. According to CEPT document TR61-01, the correct prefixes for Italy and Greece are I/ and SV/ (which, being shorter, is surely an advantage for CW activations). Am I missing something subtle here, or is this just a mistake? Would the inadvertent use of an incorrect prefix technically invalidate an activation under rule 3.7.1.2 ?
Since SOTA by its nature tends to encourage out-of-country operation, might it be worth having a simple guide to the key points on our web pages? For example some visitors to the UK are heard using G/ rather than M/ (though to be fair I haven’t heard SOTA activators doing that). A particular issue is that TR61-01 seems to be a tricky document to find online, so a link to http://www.erodocdb.dk/docs/doc98/official/pdf/TR6101.pdf
on our pages might be helpful).
Interesting. I wonder why there is a discrepancy between that and the official CEPT document.
I’m afraid the precise meaning of the bit about regional variations is beyond my very limited German, but again, there’s nothing about this in the CEPT document.
Regarding the examples given, IK7/homecall and SV5/homecall, my understanding is that the area signifier is more of a courtesy. I have operated in both countries as I5/G4OIG/P and SV8/G4OIG/P and have had no issues. Must say I am a little surprised to find IK being suggested by the DARC since I is the primary country indicator. I suppose it is no different to non-UK nationals operating as M/homecall - but I find that strange as well!
… or not! If you take that document literally, it says a visitor
should use M/ when operating anywhere in the United Kingdom!
Or at least “may”. The regions are listed below with the correct variations, and if you assume that the most specific rule wins, you get the right answer even though England isn’t explicitly mentioned. But yes, it is odd that it is expressed like that and I hadn’t noticed it before.
Be that as it may, I am pretty sure that this is the definitive regulatory document referenced in our licences.
For example some visitors to the UK are heard using G/ rather
than M/ (though to be fair I haven’t heard SOTA activators doing
that). A particular issue is that TR61-01 seems to be a tricky
document to find online, so a link to http://www.erodocdb.dk/docs/doc98/official/pdf/TR6101.pdf
on our pages might be helpful).
In fact G/ used to be correct and I have no idea when or why it was changed to M/, but of course my call considerably precedes the appearance of the M Johnny-come-latelies! It could well be that those visitors signing G/ are working from older documents.
Have you looked on the RSGB website? I think that would be a far more appropriate place than the SOTA website!
Republic of Macedonia has adopted CEPT Recommendation T/R 61-01, so temporary visitors who hold a CEPT Radio Amateur Licence may operate under the CEPT regulations using Z38/home call.
Vlado, Z35M
I happened to notice today a couple of activations spotted using the
prefixes IK7/homecall and SV5/homecall. According to CEPT document
TR61-01, the correct prefixes for Italy and Greece are I/ and SV/
(which, being shorter, is surely an advantage for CW activations). Am
I missing something subtle here, or is this just a mistake? Would the
inadvertent use of an incorrect prefix technically invalidate an
activation under rule 3.7.1.2 ?
SV5 = Dodecanese (as distinct from Greece by DXCC rules) so using SV5/ is mandatory for operations from that entity, whereas an additional figure like SV8/ SV2/ or IK3/ may be used as an optional “regional identifier”.
Edit: In the years before 2010 I was signing OE/DL4CW/7 (the 7 being the identifier for /p operations from OE7, Tyrol), a rule which has been dropped in OE-Land in the meantime, OE/DL4CW/p is correct now, regardless of the State you’re in.
In reply to M1MAJ:
… spotted using the prefixes IK7/homecall and SV5/homecall. According to CEPT document TR61-01, the correct prefixes for Italy and Greece…
SV5 = Dodecanese i.e. a DXCC entity which is separate from SV = Greece. So it is quite appropriate, I would have thought, to use SV5/homecall.
As an aside, SV9 = Crete i.e. also a separate DXCC entity, and I have operated as SV9/GM0AXY in my dim and distant past, hi!
A number of countries have regional variations on the callsigns issued to its citizens e.g. Sweden, Austria as well as Italy… What is not clear to me is what prefix one should use when operating under CEPT from some of these countries. Does one include the regional identifier or not i.e. do I operate as OE1/GM0AXY when in the area of Vienna or is OE/GM0AXY acceptable ??
Can someone from these countries e.g. Italy, Sweden, Austria and others, please advice.
73 de Ken - GM0AXY / LA6EF
p.s. I just noted a spot for IK1/OK1DIG/P which to me is the correct way of doing it… what are the rules elsewhere…???
In fact G/ used to be correct and I have no idea when or why it was
changed to M/
There may be a gap in my knowledge, and I’m therefore open to correction if relevant documents can be cited. My recollection is that before the CEPT recommendation was issued and adopted, reciprocal licencees were issued G5+3 calls. Then CEPT TR61-01 came along and M/home-call was specified. Was there really an intermediate stage at which G/ was in use? I was out of touch with the hobby for a few years and might have missed it.
I’m still unsure what callsign format is used if a NON-CEPT licensee applies for and is granted a reciprocal UK licence. I have been unable to find any definitive statement on the matter, save that I once found the assertion “no UK callsign will be issued”. It is conceivable that the authorities would issue G/home-call in this case, to distinguish explicit reciprocal licences from implicit CEPT licences, but this is mere speculation on my part. I just don’t know.
Have you looked on the RSGB website? I think that would be a far more
appropriate place than the SOTA website!
The information there is very basic, as I recall. In any case it would itself only be an interpretation, not DEFINITIVE. I’m only really interested in primary sources, i.e. actual licences and actual regulations.
What is not
clear to me is what prefix one should use when operating under CEPT
from some of these countries.
I think it is clear. My licence (and I assume yours) says (in clause 16) to follow the terms of CEPT Recommendation T/R 61-01. For most countries, a single prefix is defined with no numeric regional variations (the most notable exception being the USA).
I think DXCC entities are irrelevant. We as amateurs would like it to be the case that the callsign uniquely determines the DXCC entity. It would be ever so convenient. But the licencing authorities in the various administrations may not share that desire - why would they care about some ARRL award scheme? It is well known that there are many cases in which the prefix alone is not sufficient to determine the DXCC entity.
SV5 = Dodecanese (as distinct from Greece by DXCC rules) so using SV5/
is mandatory for operations from that entity
Can you cite a regulation that mandates it? I don’t see any mention in my licence or the CEPT regulations of DXCC rules. They are an invention of the ARRL.
In reply to M1MAJ:
I was issued GM5AXY back in 1972 when Reciprocal Licenses between Norway and the UK became available. At that time and for several years to follow, there was no such thing as CEPT. It was all down to Reciprocal Agreements between countries.
When CEPT came along (early 1980’s, those of us with active reciprocal calls were invited by the then DTI (Now Ofcom) to apply for a G or GM etc callsign OR to continue using the reciprocal call, GM5AXY in my case, until such time as the same suffix came up for issue in the then G0, GM0 series which was just becomming available… guess what I opted for !
CEPT arrangements came into being almost at the same time as the first M-prefixes started to appear, and I do not recall anyone using G/homecall or GM/homecall except in the case of 1 or 2 USA calls (USAF personnel).
The situation now, and it has been this way for quite a number of years, is that anyone from abroad wishing to operate in the UK for longer than a 3 months periode (don’t quote me on the 3 months, it may be longer) will be required to take the RAE or whatever it is now called and apply for a licence under the same rules as other UK residents whether UK nationals or not.
here endeth the lesson… !
73 de Ken - GM0AXY ex-GM5AXY / LA6EF
In reply to G8ADD:
Quote
"In fact G/ used to be correct and I have no idea when or why it was changed to M/, but of course my call considerably precedes the appearance of the M Johnny-come-latelies! It could well be that those visitors signing G/ are working from older documents."
I think the M/callsign prefix started being used when that prefix started to be issued.
The whole subject comes complete with several cans of worms!
We all like to use the correct call especially as we can then point out someone else has got it wrong. But in this case there do appear to be many contradictory or vague documents flying about.
In the UK case, OFCOM do seem to have problems with their own paperwork. The call printed has varied between M0FMF and MM0FMF on my licence despite not moving QTH! Currently it says MM0FMF and the last CEPT guidance I read said you sign /. Which means DL/MM0FMF rather than DL/M0FMF. The latter seems better to me because my call is M0FMF and is modified when I’m in some other bits of the UK. If I’m not in Scotland but Germany why am I expected to insert the Scottish modifier? Exactly!
From a SOTA point of view, the MT take the view that it is the intent which matters. So someone signing IK7/xxxxxxx instead of I/xxxxx is not a big problem. They had a CEPT licence and were trying to play by the rules. Just which rules is the problem! As long as the band/mode they operated on was common to both IK7 land and their home licence then the fact the prefix may or may not have been the right one is not an issue. You can argue they were operating illegally as they used the wrong prefix but that would really be splitting hairs.
There are some odd rules for CEPT which not everyone will be aware of. One is that in France to operate CW on HF you must have a CW test pass. People who gained an M0 call after WRC2003 and have no test pass cannot use CW on HF in France. Getting suitable paperwork is now a problem. As to whether this is enforced or not is unknown. It would be a wholly Kafka-esque experience to find someone like Tom signing as F/M1EYP/P on 20m CW operating (well) at 20+wpm and then be reprimanded and prosecuted for operating without a licence when he can’t get the test pass needed but would pass if the test was still taking place!
Likewise, operation in Malta 9H is OK for CEPT but you need to get a local call allocated. So 9H/MM0FMF/p is not on. But applying for the local call (I think FOC) and operating as 9H3xxxx is OK. Mike MM0ROV fell foul of this bizarre rule and being a complete gentleman deleted his log entries meaning he passed up points / uniques and association credits.
So it is intent that really matters. I doubt we will ask anyone to delete an activation entry because they erred on prefix in use. What we are concerned about are people who are deliberately cheating. Not being in the AZ, operation from a car etc.
I doubt we will ask anyone to delete an activation entry because they erred on prefix in use.
For avoidance of doubt, I wasn’t suggesting that you should. Obviously it is right that it is intent that matters for SOTA. Hence my quip about “technically invalid” - perhaps that should have been “pedantically invalid”.
Nevertheless, the T/R 61-01 rules lead to callsigns that are shorter and simpler than some that have actually been used, so it seems to me that there are advantages all round in gently promoting them.
Of course it’s entirely up to the MT whether to put some guidelines and references on the web site. It was only a suggestion.
Republic of Macedonia has adopted CEPT Recommendation T/R 61-01, so
temporary visitors who hold a CEPT Radio Amateur Licence may operate
under the CEPT regulations using Z38/home call.
CEPT arrangements came into being almost at the same time as the first
M-prefixes started to appear, and I do not recall anyone using
G/homecall or GM/homecall except in the case of 1 or 2 USA calls (USAF
personnel).
The situation now, and it has been this way for quite a number of
years, is that anyone from abroad wishing to operate in the UK for
longer than a 3 months periode (don’t quote me on the 3 months, it may
be longer) will be required to take the RAE or whatever it is now
called and apply for a licence under the same rules as other UK
residents whether UK nationals or not.
here endeth the lesson… !
73 de Ken - GM0AXY ex-GM5AXY / LA6EF
I think you are right about the G/homecall being US forces personnel, but I can’t check it, my logbooks for the 70’s vanished during a house move!
With regard to foreign visitors having to take an exam after three months, this is what it says on the RSGB website:
"T/R 61-01 is intended to cover temporary stays, for up to 3 months. For longer stays, amateurs from CEPT Administrations which have adopted T/R 61-02 (23-page/161KB PDF), can apply to Ofcom for a Full UK licence. You will need to complete a normal amateur radio licence application form and to provide the following:
Normal Licence fee
Harmonised Amateur Radio Examination Certificate (HAREC) from a country which has implemented CEPT T/R 61-02."
In reply to M1MAJ:
I did a quick trawl using Google and came up with the following extract in English of the Greek Licensing conditions:-
…
The foreign radio amateur with a temporary license must identify his/her station while in Greece using:
The Greek callsign prefix: SV
Followed by the appropriate region number 1 to 9 (Find the proper region number)
Followed by the symbol: / (stroke)
Followed by his/her own national call sign
Followed by the letter M for mobile, P for portable, MM for maritime mobile
…
The use of SV followed by a number indicating which region of Greece the operation takes place from appears to be part of the licensing conditions in Greece. SV5 has obviously been allocated by the the greek authorities to Dodecanese, SV9 to Crete etc. The fact that the SV5 and SV9 regions have some kind of autonomy within Greece has lead to these regions being recognised as separate entities for the purposes of DXCC.
73
It could well be that those visitors signing G/ are working from older documents.
It could well be that those visitors signing G/ are working from older documents."