I’m surprised it took so long to get activated… I’m planning an activation there with Paul M0SNA later this year.
The C3/AD-010 summit AZ straddles the Andorra<>Spain border. Activating C3/AD-010 can be done from the Andorran side of the border if you can persuade Andorra Telecom to give you a licence (very, very difficult). You may in that case obtain a C3xxxx call or may be allowed to sign C3/M0FMF for example. However, you are more likely to find a sack of hen’s teeth than get a C3 reciprocal/temporary licence!
Or you make sure with map and GPS that you are on the Spanish side of the border and activate as EA3/M0FMF, which is what I will be doing later this year. It is confusing for people to see EA3/M0FMF on C3/AD-010 but it is perfectly valid.
Andy all my respects to you, I do not agree at all, as leaving EA3/SP9MDM is not even referenced as EA3 and referencing C3/AD-010 this is intolerable and outrageous.
I’m still waiting for Simon my proposal for C3.
Excuse me but I am outraged, as I am valid I resign as manager of EA3 Catalunya
My understanding is that the callsign used is the offical one permitted on Spanish land. The summit reference is given by the SOTA Management team in agreement with the Association Managers. The summit was created for SOTA when the Andorran SOTA Association came into being. The border area around the summit above the 25m level goes into Spain I understand. The situation can be compared to DL/WS-001 Zugspitz which could be activated by DL/G4OBK/P or OE/G4OBK/P from either side of the platform. One country has to be counted and be the winner of the reference, in that case Germany won. In your case Andorra won. There were double (and even treble) summit tops to activate at one time but the SOTA MT tidied up the rules. It was great fun activating double or treble summits. Moving the station a few feet and getting twice or three times the points, but the practice was scorned by some and the MT made the decision to remove this feature of the programme.
…but if they are sitting in EA3 and there is no EA3/LL reference for the summit (I don’t know why and if there’s an issue with prominence at all, it shouldn’t even be a C3 summit but that’s another topic), and they are in the AZ, then it is valid. I could understand the objection if they should have used an EA3/LL reference but that doesn’t seem to have been possible.
Hi Phil, the example you gave me is not comparable to what happened today EA3/SP9MDN/P OK
but leaving with the reference C3/AD-010 leaving from EA3 I already know the distance of 25 m even so, for me it is unacceptable.
Take into account Andorra, the Telecommunications issue is managed by two associations and you cannot see one and the other, so when the other association finds out, you can imagine, I warned Simon.
I reiterate the same SOTA bases are these but I do not agree at all.
I will continue to enjoy the Jack as an activator, we hear each other
Naapkopf HB0/LI-002 sits on three borders. It used to have HB9, OE and HB0 references. You could climb it, activate it as HB0/LI-002 for 10 points, then move a few metres and activate it as OE/xxxx for 10 points and then move a few metres again and activate it as HB/xxxx. This seemed very silly so the MT made the decision many years ago that one summit has one reference. Since then every summit that had multiple refs has been cleansed. A huge amount of work was done by AMs and the summits team to sort this out to get to where we are now.
A summit has only one reference.
A summit that has an AZ in two or more countries has one reference.
Which association/region gets the summit depends on many variables such as
the region with the largest share of the AZ gets the summit
the AMs for the two regions decide which region gets the summit
the MT decide because the AMs both have equally good reasons for it being their summit.
Once decided a single reference is allocated. Anyone activating the summit gives the single reference no matter where they are located within the AZ. The callsign they use depends on their position.
Peel Fell G/SB-004 AZ is in England and Scotland. I have activated it as MM0FMF (a Scottish callsign) but an English reference.
Larriston Fell GM/SS-161 AZ is in England and Scotland. About 20sq. m of the AZ is in England so I could activate it as M0FMF (and English callsign) but a Scottish reference.
Vrchmezí OK/KR-010 and Šerlich OK/KR-069 both had an AZ that is in Poland and Czech Republic. I activated both as SP/M0FMF from the Polish part of the AZ but the reference is for Czech Republic. (Both summits now retired.)
Luz OK/LI-057 has an AZ in Czech Republic and Germany. I activated it as OK/M0FMF as the bench on the Czech side was free and the bench on the German side was in use (Summit now retired.)
People have been activating summits from the AZ in a neighbouring country with conflicting country prefix and summit prefix for years. Nothing wrong with it… it’s expected.
When I saw this topic, I was speechless.
One might really think that I would travel almost 2,000 km from home to do something illegal.
The answer is NO.
The summit was activated from the Spanish side, the law of the Principality of Andorra was not violated. My leg, antenna, trx etc during activation was not in Andorra and we were in Spain.
We had it well thought out and knew what to do.
Everything according to logic and GR SOTA.
You beat me and Paul to it Jacek, we will not get out there till September. C3, EA3, EA2 activations are planned and we will have a chance to see some wonderful scenery, eat amazing food and meet lovey people.
t was not my intention to bother you or anyone, I simply do not share the bases, I have been working for a while with C31 and referencing more summits within Andorra, currently they are in EA3 and France.
I just wish you have a good return and a good mountain.
I’ll finish with that soon
With the reasons showed here I see this specific summit is a special case similar to some other border summits in SOTA with a large activation zone.
In this situation I see that today’s activation was according to the rules.
I rode Dani, EA3HP messages, and perhaps I better add some background info for you to understand his reaction.
Dani spent a lot of time in the past speaking with the existing ham asociations (2) in Andorra, to explain the SOTA scheme and trying to get facilities to allow activators to come in Andorra and activate SOTA. Not an easy task as you may guess.
Can you imagine his feeling when after his devoted time and frustration he saw this activity.
I just had a conversation by phone with him and we both are now aware of this summit case.
Sure Dani would still like to do it in the “normal” way, by having permission of the authorities and activating with an attractive C3xxx callsign.
Anyway, we take note with this summit. If we could, we would be there either way, activating from EA3 or, if feasible, from the other side of the border.
As I said since initiating the thread, not any intention to formulate any accusation, but to be clear with the situation.
I first heard C3 activity about 25 years ago on 6m. On the same frequency was a C3 station and OY9 station. No matter where I pointed my antenna there was choice 6m DX and 2 enormous pileups. I didn’t work either station. The C3 went QRT because the people calling were like animals and would not follow his requests. Since that day I have wanted something C3 in my logbook.
I don’t know why the regulators in Andorra don’t allow CEPT or reciprocal calls, their country their rules. But these summits now allow me to get something C3 in my log after 25 years but with an EA3 prefix. I think there are some C3 summits with AZ in France as well. Maybe there are F summits with an AZ in C3, I can’t remember. I get something C3 but not a C3 call. So I’ll activate and increment my associations count.
Now your suggestion that maybe there could be easing of rules (for SOTA?) and I could activate from C3 itself. Maybe as C3/M0FMF or maybe something like C39XYZ. That’s even better. If this goes ahead soon maybe I wont need to be EA3/M0FMF. But even if it takes place after we’ve been through Andorra, the fact I may be able to get a C3 prefix means I’ll be happy to return and activate the summit again from the C3 side of the border and some other summits. Andorra isn’t really that far from my sister’s QTH in France, so it isn’t too difficult to extend any visit I make to see her (and empty her wine cellar) with another trip to C3.