Walt
Maybe a poor choice of terms. Those doing it. Is that better?
Jeff K6QCB
2 Likes
Some logging programs automatically send entries to LOTW, it may well be that this feature has been set and forgotten so the SOTA people do not realise what is happening. That is the value of this part of the thread, drawing peopleās attention to the incompatibility between SOTA and LOTW, but in the longer term any solution or warning system is in the lap of the LOTW people.
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Thatās my choice to give this problem a fair solution.
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For me the issue resulting from sending callsign once is different. In general you guys and girls are S1 here at best and I am the same at your end. Most of your QSOās are ālocalā and you are not really expecting DX to call you. That is why (and this happened a number of times) when I send callsign once JA will come back with 7L1 and EU will answer DL1. Hence for me it is practical to send callsign twice to assure you that it is indeed ZL who is calling you and make sure you get my callsign right to avoid any corrections. In fact, with your S1 signal and all the noise and QSB, I donāt mind YOU sending my callsign twice when answering my call thus I can be sure you have it correct.
Of course, me calling VK or ZL is a different story and no need for repeats.
So, it all dependsā¦
73!
Andrei, de ZL1TM
3 Likes
Not uploading SOTA Logs to LOTW only works if the activator does not upload their logs to LOTW. If a chaser does not upload their chaser log to LOTW that only fixes the problem for that particular chaser. What about the person who may or may not be a SOTA registered participant and knows nothing of this issue, uploads their log to LOTW to later check their award status and find that they now have all States or enough Counties or Grid Squares to get the award they have been chasing. Now they apply for the award, spend their money not knowing that one or more of the contacts used is erroneous. They just assume if it is confirmed on LOTW itās good, they trust in the accuracy of the other guy. They may find out later that it is not valid and they wasted their money or they may never find out. Do we want to do that to our fellow Hams?
I donāt care whether a person choices to not upload their logs or they realize they need to use proper location parameters, I just want to fix the problem.
Activators who want to upload their logs can make it easy on themselves by only selecting State as a location parameter for their SOTA log upload when they setup a location. That way you only need one location per State operated in. That one location will be good for all summits in that State as the only thing you are confirming, location wise, is the State. You donāt need to select County and Grid Square. You could have a comprehensive location setup for Home and only a State location for SOTA.
Sounds like a good idea to me.
Jeff K6QCB
The problem of ādisobedient chasersā has been raised again and again.
As long as activators talk about a massive pile up, but do not have 20 QSOs in the log, there will always be a whining of some activators.
Every chaser may call me, QRQ or QRS, once or twice, loud, weak, with frequency shift or not. It is you who give me the joy of outdoor radio ā¦
Oh yes - and I give my callsign with every QSO. So much time must be 
73
Mario, dl4mfm
6 Likes
Hi Jeff,
Some comprehensive documentation on LoTW or eQSL.cc use for SOTA-activators would certainly be useful to share with the community. The same QSOs can be valuable for other awards in addition to those offered by Summits On The Air program. Unfortunately I have not had time recently for this.
73, Jaakko oh7bf/ac1bb
This isnāt only a SOTA problem, is it? Doesnāt the same issue exist for other award schemes? NPOTA, FFW, etc?
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Exactly and I wouldnāt think of searching any of those programmes for information on how to work LOTW. Now if i want to learn about LOTW, I wonder where I should look? (Rhetorical question)
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The point is being missed. It is not that SOTA needs to be a LOTW educational site. The point is that the SOTA activators that donāt know of the problem and how important proper location information is to LOTW need to be informed that they need to gain that information. I could inform LOTW of this but what do you expect them to do? Contact every SOTA operator with a LOTW account to inform them or post this same info here as I am doing? Yes they have instructions on there site but if you donāt know you donāt know something you donāt know to go find what you donāt know. The only hope is to inform those that donāt know where they are and hopefully will see it. If you have a better way to inform those who are doing it wrong that they need find out, I would be glad to hear it.
Lets stop arguing about whoās responsibility it is and just get the word out to where it needs to be. This thread started out about promoting good Amateur practices answering a CQ so then what is wrong with promoting good Amateur Radio practices about logging.
This problem may and probably does exist elsewhere, like POTA, but I have only experienced it here. That doesnāt mean we shouldnāt correct it here because it exists elsewhere. I can only act in my little part of the world.
Jeff K6QCB
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Jeff why donāt you write a best practices document for people who use LOTW and take part in SOTA and then we can put it in āJoining Inā section on the website and mention it in the FAQ.
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Hi all
Again 
Why ?
Ćric F5JKK
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Eric, keeping radio amateurs on one subject is definately more difficult than herding cats. A sensible moderator doesnāt even try!
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Well, all I know is that I prefer that my logs, my QSL cards, and any other form of a QSO confirmation will correctly indicate my location when I operate from anywhereā¦including SOTA summits.
I take pride in getting it rightā¦and I donāt think that is a bad thing.
enoughā¦back to planning my 426th activation.
73
Pete
WA7JTM
3 Likes
One more note that actually pertains to the subject at hand. I sometimes send my call twice when, in my opinion, it is necessary or helpful to do soā¦a new CW operator, under very weak signal conditions, or maybe when trying to work s2s into Europe in a pileup, etc. There are times it is warranted.
thanks
Pete
WA7JTM
2 Likes
During my todays activation of SP/BZ-020 absolute majority of chasers called me one time - thanks for that.
Of course all of chasers are our supporters and if you want to call twice you are welcome
Argument raised by Andrei ZL1TM is very serious, frienkly speaking I do not remeber Andrei called me once or twice, his copy during our last QSO was perfect.
HNY for ALL
73, Jarek
Typically, I throw my call out and wait. There are mobile operators who may remain in range for a few minutes, and Iām chasing someone I know will get back to me. Often Iām advised to stand-by.
Thereās another side to this morass, and perhaps it falls to the need for instant gratification.
Most activators I know are dealing with cooler temperature than the Shack, would like to collect the QSOs and move along, to another summit or wobble off to a pint. Some donāt offer, āLast Call.ā
Sometimes a chaser will fall into an extended discussion of the radio types, and the merits of several antenna, the fishing up the creek for the last month, or how he, āwoke up this morning and my dog had diedā. All fine and dandy, I suppose, but theyāre on the other side of the mountain and Iām not hearing a signal. I have to assume the air is clear because Iām expecting short exchanges
Sometimes Iām not in the Shack and Iām on foot. Finding one activation in a narrow beam width, I locked position and held that spot for 5 minutes. Iāve a cute story about being near a chaser spot I favor, having left for a bus five blocks away, and having to double back to contact the Operator ā all in 15 minutes! No one said chasing was going to be easy.
Can the chit-chat be held until after the activation?
Can an activator interrupt a chit-chat to help the chaser who finds you later in the activation, but still on summit?
Can we all have fun here?!!
For some of us having fun is a serious business!
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For what its worth.
I only do CW and as an activator its been an interesting experience in gaining my 200 points so far. Coming from a Naval background as a radio op, (OK, a long time ago when morse was still nearly king) I found that responding to a āpile upā and āinterestingā experience.
Initially I recognised none of the callers - I do now, but I still make sure its the right EA or HB call, etc I heard rather than assume!.
The first time I had a small pile up and everyone replied at once, I thought. āWhat!!!? How do I respond?ā, How do I pick someone out of this lot? DO I send CQ again or perhaps ? and repeat the process? - then one of the operators sent their call again, which allowed me progress. This has happened quite often - or perhaps a more skilled chaser has simply realised that heās not going to be heard by me when everyone else is sending their callsigns on top of each other and waits until the noise dies down and then sends his call in the silence before I manage to scribble a bit of a callsign down in my log or if I can hear one complete call through the noise!.
EA2IF did that recently when I was activating a couple of G/NP summits last weekend - and it did help!! One mass of calls, silence! then just before I got to the keyā¦dit, dedah,.āEA2IFāā¦(Tks Guru)
BUT:- If everyone sent their call twice - everytime?? That would double the amount of potential time and might cause twice as much QRN whilst trying to identify someone.
Re chasers:- I have no negative comments about any of the chasers whoāve chased me. Theyāve all been good disciplined ops. OK, Iāve had the odd caller, who Iāve assumed doesnāt know what SOTA is or perhaps started to tell me about his rig etc., but thats been the exception.
David
M6GYU
4 Likes