Robert,
in this thread you were repeatedly recommended to spot. And after this you ask the same question again.
Now I am wondering, why you ask.
EDIT: Obviously my English is even worse than I thought. I was told, this was a confrontational post. It was not meant this way and I still do not understand how this interpretation was found.I thought, my choosing of words was quite neutral. And I tried to focus on the reason of asking again in a helpful way. The reason I could not see so I said I was wondering.and this was meant as neutral term for not knowing. Usually there is a reason and when it is known, the answers can meet the lacking or misunderstood information in a better and more precise way.
I did not want to criticise the asking again or judge it negatively. Wondering was also not meant as a request to defend yourself or apologize or anything like this.
After reading my original writing carefully again and again, I can still not recognise what could be interpreted in this way. Wondering was meant as an invitation to tell us more of the obviously remaining parts of the question around spotting. Now I just distrust my ability to express myself in English more and more. Possibly all the explanations can be misunderstood again
Robert, Your conditions are similar to those we face in the Canadian Rockies. Most of our summits are well out of cell phone service range. However spotting is really necessary so you have to spot yourself by using methods that don’t require cell phone reception. You need to check out SOTAmat. Check out this video I did here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IU5yYMDTe6I. Then check out the SOTAmat tutorial. This will change your life!
As others have said, spotting is the key. Then the chasers do ALL the work to come and find you
One of the advantages with CW is if you’ve posted an alert that includes CW as the mode you will get auto-spotted when the RBN (Reverse Beacon Network) picks up your CQ calls. I think it’s flipping great! Once when the RBN spotting wasn’t working for some reason I was like a sulky eye-rolling teenager when I had to go through the rigmarole of getting out my phone to spot myself I know lots of people may well be fed up with yet another person banging on about CW, but I think it’s definitely going to help you to stick with it in the circumstances you’ve described above.
Thank you for that fantastic video. And your dog is a star too. Your persistence will pay off and you, and your dog are in for a lot of SOTA fun. Looking forward to following your progress.
Best 73’s and DX
Ian
G4WTF
Tony’s advice is indeed very good!
Especially if you do not have mobile coverage it is so easy to get automatically spotted…
A big reason for CW
Makes life so much easier.
Blockquote
in this thread you were repeatedly recommended to spot. And after this you ask the same question again.
Now I am wondering, why you ask.
73, Johannes
Blockquote
I know on the SOTAwatch page there’s a spot and an alert tab. I understood the alert one so I assumed spotting was the opposite, meaning it was for chasers to say they spotted you. Didn’t know it was meant for me to spot myself.
When I read the previous posts about spotting I sort of just assumed they used the word spot to talk about the alert as if spot/alert were two sides of the same coin. Thanks for making me defend myself on the internet.
A very good, concise write up, thank you. I will try this next time, I particularly like the RBNhole method. I’d just recently heard of the Reverse Beacon Network and I need to learn more about it anyway
RBNHole is a great way to get spotted (if you are a CW operator). Just remember to post an alert with a ‘time on the summit’ estimate that is within the default -1 / +3 hour window. If you need to expand the default window, you can do so by adding special command text to the comment of your alert. Read all the details here:
Many amateur radio activities frown on self-spotting so I think that is a fair assumption. But in SOTA self-spotting is not only allowed it is necessary.
PS. You can edit your posts on the reflector - you may like to fix your quotes.
As @G4TGJ Richard had mentioned, it is essential. A QRP station calling CQ into the Ether has little chance of being picked up.
Spot your exact summit, frequency and mode on sotawatch3, sotl.as or other means, and the chasers are suddenly looking for you. You are DX, an unactivated summit, or just more chaser points. It works. Against the odds, it works.
An example. In January I activated 4 summits in 8B Cyprus, all QRP. SSB. My spots brought in northern European stations every time. They also brought in GM/ES friends who were determined to work me, including summit to summits, also QRP. Weak signals, but workable and immensly satisfying. Also, some of the best chasers have superb stations, so they’ll do the heavy lifting.
15m was my band of choice in Cyprus. Your EFHW will do 15m.
Do your homework. Learn which band to use by experimenting. Make the most of the best year of the solar cycle, which should be this year.
Thank you for explaining the reason for repeating your question. So you made clear what information you needed and you coud get some very good advice again. I am glad my wondering could help in this way.
Sorry for my clumsy English. But I really can not see, how your sharp offensive response matches to my comment. Nobody was offended or criticised by it.
I wondered, why the question about self spotting was not yet clear to the thread opener after many good recommendations. So I focused on this point to facilitate to clear a possibly misunderstood or lost piece of information. To me it seemed to work, he pointed out his former misunderstanding and additional information was thankfully given.
In my understanding wondering was a quite neutral expression of not knowing. Now it seems to be considered as an offense. I regret this and can just ask for clarification. My dictionary does not show any hint in this respect.
Please calm down and try to go a little easier yourself.
73, Johannes
When I started out I didn’t think Spotting was legal so I did what I always did called CQ
After 20 mins of nothing I packed up the rucksack and went home
With POTA you need to spot and same with WWFF and SOTA
I learned on several high value to me activations that not spotting with 2 watts SSB is insane and has cost me activations on overseas trips…not good
Of course pay attention to times as you want the EU or NA stations to be awake
9am POTA in Madrid is EU not the Americans sleeping
The adrenaline junkies will never spot even if QRP is a weak signal so be it because there still remains a thrill in working DX…if with a spot then better as chasers get the contacts in the log
I know the purists will continue the homebrew CW rig that is built into a hiking stick and I started that way and plan to do that again but built into a mint tin
John VE3IPS
I think there are several conflicting issues at stake regarding self-spotting.
Self spotting in special interest operations can vastly increase the chances of making QSO, so it is very desirable. Most special interest groups encourage self-spotting especially for Low powered stations. The number of special interest stations on air is minuscule compared with general dxing and chat practiced by the vast majority of hams on the air.
Self spotting in contests is generally forbidden as it gives that operator an advantage over others in the contest, so is considered unfair to other contestants.
Self spotting on dx cluster also gives that operator an unfair advantage and would quickly clutter the clusters with spots for stations that have not been heard by anyone. So self spotting on dx cluster is considered unfair, undesirable and is forbidden.
Against all that background we have a new operator in a special interest group, in this case SOTA. Having learned items 2 and especially 3 above and wanting to comply with that, he refrains from self spotting and in the event, finds that he has no cell coverage anyway, so has to rely on his alert posted earlier, to attract attention to his cq calls.
Experienced operators have advised him that self spotting is very effective, but he knows from items 2 and 3 above that self spotting is generally frowned upon or forbidden in other parts of ham radio. Nowhere has any advice acknowledged that self spotting in SOTA is actually approved of so he has no way to know any differently. Telling him repeatedly this basic message without explanation is not a helpful process.
I think I can understand why having multiple messages that appear to be critical of his operation are quite unexpected and indeed, hurtful. How about we understand better that the different operating rules of SOTA (and indeed POTA and WWFF etc) are not in line with general operating rules and so need to be explained carefully to new operators.
As an association manager myself, I do receive enquiries about self spotting and can attest that this aspect of operating SOTA does confuse people. My approach is to explain why it is different and that the usual reasons for banning self spotting simply don’t apply to this situation.
thank you for the scenic video, I enjoyed that. A lovely summit, nice view and a good hike. Also glad for you that you managed to not only activate (one QSO), but also qualify (at least 4 QSO) the summit albeit on 2m.
It was suggested for you to “do your homework”, which is obviously a good thing. Let me offer some comments / suggestions in the best possible spirit…
use the spots for SOTA.
Make sure you are using a setup that can potentially be heard. You can use WSPR to check. Here is a video from Peter, VK3YE on a simple android app. https://youtu.be/zbNWspbhFK4?feature=shared
Feeding the radio via the microphone is annoying for 2 minutes, but works well. WSPR should be able to detect even weak signals from Alaska. A detection will give you confidence.
You can also verify your setup with the reverse beacon network. Just call CQ on CW. I checked, even 4 WPM calls are being picked up. With clean sending, and if your setup is working, you get an almost immediate feedback online - very satisfying. You can also see where you are being heard and with what SNR. This will give you some indications who could hear you and how well. As others have already mentioned, with an active alert on Sotawatch, a CW call will generate that desirable spot - in real time, on the correct frequency… as all spots should be.
You may want to make sure you are getting out before you arrive at the summit.
Antenna + Feedline. You are trying to work 20m, so you are looking for low angle radiation. This suggests a vertical. A dipole (end-fed half wave) at a suitable height above RF ground also gives low angle radiation.
A vertical is simple and consistent. If your pole is less than about 5m high, put a coil in the middle. Use online calculators. Having a tuner you don’t need to be super precise. https://youtu.be/f-Gc1W2UNRo?feature=shared
This video is to show you how a vertical can look, not so much about the SWR comparison. I have successfully used an aluminum mosquito screen about 1m square as I didn’t have a faraday cloth. There is evidence that it is about equal to a reasonable portable radial system (e.g. 8x3m radials, laid on the ground, which I also use). I just whack my FT817 on top of it, making sure the back contacts the net and stick a 4mm jack into the back antenna connector with about 5.1m of 5e twisted pair (1/4 of the cable). Maybe give such a setup a try. If you can’t get a WSPR spot with the vertical, things are really bad in Alaska.
Alternatively cut some dipoles. With a tuner a “close enough” length will work. The problem is how to mount it at the “right” height. Too low or too high and the radiation goes up. On a big pile of rocks (as others have repeatedly pointed out) you are never quite sure of the actual RF height and as a result of where the radiation is going.
As an aside, not knowing where the radiation is going may also be a problem with the EFHW. Or it could just be me, lots of people seem to have good results with them.
So maybe try a 40m dipole. Here even vertical radiation gets reflected (NVIS) and is good for “local” contacts. How useful is this in Alaska? No idea.
Worth a try? I would say yes, especially on a summit like the one in your video. Two ca.10m legs, flat and low inverted V, fed with 2-3 meter of parallel line (diy or ladder line). The KX2 should be able to tune it (it has an L Match with ca. 8uH inductance and ca. 1.2nF capacitance). Do you have some (network) cable you can gut? It’s light too.
Also as I was considering your radio choices I found (by looking for “ham radio Alaska”) a youtube channel KL7EC outdoors which could be interesting to you as well. I was curious to see what antenna + radio he was using with what results. My recommendation btw would have been for you to get a QRO rig. Sure, QRP works, but I remember being in Iceland on cold, windy summits, searching and pouncing, and just not being heard. Also because I (and likely others too) would like to have a better chance at an S2S (summit to summit QSO).
Hi Andrew,
While I agree that with QRP self-spotting is the “norm” I was not aware that those running the DX Cluster websites ban it. In contest rules, yes it is not uncommon to forbid self-spotting however, when out portable at a Castle, Beach, Church, on a Canal or similar (where the award scheme does not have its own spotting cluster site or when you are simply out portable not taking part in an award scheme) the use of the all-embracing set of DXCluster sites is normal for portable operators.
If the DX Cluster sites wanted to ban self spotting, I would expect the code could easily check the call sign of the spotter against the spotted station and if they match not display the spot. They do not do this.
It’s not “black and white” for example Special Event Stations, JOTA stations, YOTA stations, those taking part in the ILLW weekend, all are allowed to self-spot on the DX clusters.
Where a specific award scheme has their own spotting site (such as in SOTA with SOTAWatch), it is more productive to spot there as that’s where “your” chasers are. It’s also the best way to see where there may be a chance of an entity - to - entity (ie Summit to Summit) contact could be possible.
Niche interest activities (SOTA, POTA, WWFF and their ilk) all rely on self-spotting to a large extent. There’s also spotting by niche interest chasers.
Mainstream ham radio doesn’t. It’s been considered infra-dig to self-spot since DX clusters appeared 30+ years and is illegal to self-spot for many contests. DX Watch provides a listed of the top self spotters at Top self spotters / Statistics - dxwatch - dx cluster.
