In reply to M1EYP:
I think you’re making too much of it there Gerald.
Maybe yes, maybe no. Just think on this - where have all the spots and alerts gone for German activators that are activating SOTA summits?
Yes, let’s see how it works out.
73, Gerald
In reply to M1EYP:
Changes? I have deleted many non-SOTA spots over the years. It is
the SOTAwatch website after all. It is nothing new, but will
certainly be more consistently applied when it is automated against
the SOTA reference. The only relatively “new” thing is that
we now have non-SOTA references that look like SOTA references to
consider.Tom M1EYP
Tom, I can’t believe that you have posted this above. Please read this thread again
http://www.sotawatch.org/reflector.php?topic=2534#
Is that not about a spot for your non sota activity and Brian’s post giving his blessing for non sota spots? Both MT members!! So, can you understand why people are suspicious at this latest development and sudden change of heart by you and Brian, especially as it coincides with the start of the GMA which, let’s face it, was set up by our German ham friends who had had enough of the SOTA MT.
Mike
GW0DSP
In reply to HA4FY:
In reply to M1EYP:
Hi Tom.
I’m sure, all of us understand well the real reason of such a quick
and unfriendly reaction. It’s clear, the GMA has been initiated by
resentment of German amateurs. I don’t think, the SOTA MT has to act
in the same manner.
73!
Janos, HA4FY
Janos, if that is your understanding, then you should review it at once.
There is no reason why you should accuse the MT of acting out of resentment. The MT has affirmed its support for GMA, and wishes GMA well. This has been said several times.
The concern is for the continued utility of the spots page. In the past we have had spots appear for castles, windmills, islands and even a railway station as well as the current trickle of GMA spots. There is no reason that I can think of why a page intended for the specialised purpose of guiding people to find SOTA activations should be used as a spotting service for every other kind of portable operation! The problem is how do we filter out this kind of irrelevant spot without depending on prompt manual intervention - we all have lives outside SOTA! The automatic filter does have a few drawbacks, admittedly, but it saves us work, and I’m sure that we can come up with ways to work around most of the problems.
I understand that the GMA either has or will soon have its own spotting service, so it is not going to be dependant on spots on the SOTA site. Similarly SOTA chasers that also chase GMA activations will be able to use the GMA facility. This means that GMA spots being filtered out should cause no problems for either activators or chasers. If in fact such filtering causes problems for the GMA, then if they approach the MT and explain the problem some arrangement could possibly be arrived at.
73
Brian G8ADD
In reply to GW0DSP:
Yes, Mike, it is a pity that the filter will prevent such worthy non-SOTA spots in the future, but it can’t be helped. Next time Tom will just have to use a reflector topic.
73
Brian G8ADD
In reply to G8ADD:
There’s no point in any further discussion on this issue Brian, the decision has been made and from past experience, no amount of discussion will change anything.
I suggest that we all get on with it and learn to live with it whether we agree with it or not. Let’s hope it doesn’t have a negative effect on SOTA!
My last point on this issue is that I can envisage all future activations qualifying for both SOTA and GMA from the same summit being posted on the GMA spots only after this new ruling and the way in which it was implemented without warning today! That is not progress in my eyes.
73
Mike GW0DSP
In reply to GW0DSP:
Certainly discussion will have less effect than the result of trying out the filter.
Re your last point: Not so, Mike, the filter will be working on the summit designations, and it will only reject non-SOTA designations - where the GMA and SOTA designations coincide they will appear.
73
Brian G8ADD
Wow! Hey, don’t blame MT, they did so many nice things for us during over the years. We should applaude them.
BTW, could someone please remove those spots mentionning my callsign? I gave a GMA reference, not a SOTA reference. Would’t make sense to interpret something that’s actually not true.
TIA
In reply to LX1NO:
Would’t make sense to interpret something that’s actually not true.
Norby,
If you read Phil G4OBK’s post under “Removal of useful spots from SOTAWatch” you will understand the reason for the spot and the fact that Phil noted it was a GMA-only summit, so bringing that fact to the attention of other SOTA chasers.
73, Gerald
Maybe it is time for a new independent amateur radio watch service.
The DX cluster is meant to be for DX only and SOTAwatch for SOTA only. There is a pretty rubbish IOTA system which picks up from the DX cluster but most islands are DX anyway. There is nothing out there as far as I know for spotting lighthouses, windmills, castles, railways, churches or any of the many other “On the Air” stations to say nothing of WAB and special events.
I envisage a new system which could take feeds from the DX cluster, SOTAwatch, GMA and any other similar services and put it all in one place and have the facility to allow spotting of anything that radio amateurs might find interesting. The web pages would allow you to see just what you want or everything. Maybe our national society could host it or would that be too much to ask?
Steve GW7AAV
Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will.
Martin Luther King, Jr.
In reply to G8ADD:
In reply to GW0DSP:
Certainly discussion will have less effect than the result of trying
out the filter.Re your last point: Not so, Mike, the filter will be working on the
summit designations, and it will only reject non-SOTA designations -
where the GMA and SOTA designations coincide they will appear.73
Brian G8ADD
You read me wrong Brian. I meant that if a German op activates a summit which qualifies for both sota and GMA, don’t be surprised if he asks to be spotted on the GMA spots page only after today’s events.
Mike GW0DSP
In reply to GW0DSP:
Sad if that happens, Mike, but he would have no control over the spotters, anyway, and at present there is no way of programming such a request into the system.
Since Norby only got one spot on the GMAwatch (at 1102), it would seem counterproductive to make such requests at present.
73
Brian G8ADD
In reply to G8ADD:
In reply to GW0DSP:
Sad if that happens, Mike, but he would have no control over the
spotters, anyway, and at present there is no way of programming such a
request into the system.Since Norby only got one spot on the GMAwatch (at 1102), it would seem
counterproductive to make such requests at present.73
Brian G8ADD
I have no more to add Brian, whatever will be will be, but bear in mind that the GMA’s main membership will be German and propagation on the HF bands might mean that German activators go unheard by German chasers, whereas overseas chasers would have no problem. People have short memories, only within the past weeks how many stated their support for the person on the mountain, no matter which banner they activate under? All that’s forgotten in an instant today. Why?
Mike GW0DSP
In reply to GW0DSP:
What did everyone do before the sotawatch-spot came in to force ???
Oh yes a couple of phone calls (Birmingham Mafia) And a few up into Lancashire, And yes others did the chasing by looking for them, now they want it the easy way, sit at home with computor switched on, waiting for it to go ping Sota-activity, Why not go back to the old way,
Im one that cant be bothered to sit around a computor all day doing nowt, i would rather be out walking or doing other things,
Steve m0sgb
In reply to M0SGB:
Look at it the other way around Steve - I too can’t be bothered to look at SOTAWatch all day because I’ve got work to do, but having a computer monitoring the site does at least allow me to take an occasional look and then I can pop into the shack to see whether a contact is on when someone is spotted. It’s the same at weekends when there are jobs to do around the house.
73, Gerald
In reply to M0SGB:
I don’t bother with the computer Steve. I use webmon to alert me when a spot is added, then I’ll go and chase it.
I am not top chaser by pure good luck you know, I listen around the sota frequencies and I am quite often first the station in many activators logs.
Killing the spots page wouldn’t bother me, but let’s be honest, the alerts and spots are a valuable asset if only for the safety aspect alone, as stated in the past.
Mike GW0DSP
In reply to All:
I have refrained from posting earlier because I waned to see how this thread progressed. Having done just that my $0.02 is this, all the talk so far has been about deleting non SOTA spots, eg Norby’s today, and the reasoning behind this is about an over crowded spots page.
OK my take on this is that the MT are spitting their dummy again, because the GMA is gathering interest, so they give a rather feeble excuse of overcrowding of the spots, in all the years I have been in SOTA I have never thought “hell fire the spots page is busy and complicated” not once, its just their usual way of throwing the toys out and saying look if you wanna play with my game then its my way or the highway, same old same old.
Instead of using stealth tactics and just deleting them today, why couldnt they be left as a gesture of goodwill towards the GMA ? Brian (G8ADD) has already kindly pointed out that the MT wish the GMA all the best, this is easy to say and for the MT to make out that they wish the GMA good luck (which I doubt) so to prove it and show support could they not have left the spots as is and put out a statement saying that for now its ok but in the future please note if the reflector gets too busy then we will restrict the spots to SOTA only ? That would have been the gentlemanly approach wouldnt it ? Lets face it the spots page wasnt that busy today was it ?
MT, listen to your participants once in a while and you might not get as much negativity aimed at yourselves.
Leave the spots as is for a while !!!
Vote Humps !!
Regards to all
Lee
M0LMP
In reply to M1EYP:
One this is for sure, and it goes along the lines of things evolving
that Brian mentioned earlier. That is, that if the policy of
SOTAwatch auto-rejecting non-SOTA spots proves to spoil the use of the
facility and the chasing experience, it will be reviewed and possibly
reversed. If, as intended, it improves the use and clarity of the
system, it will be retained.
Another potential problem with checking for valid summits is that
activators are quite often keen to claim a “new” summit soon after
it has become valid, and it would be unfortunate if they could not
be spotted because SOTAwatch hadn’t been updated with the new lists.
Caroline M3ZCB
I’m normally pretty fast with Database updates, and usually have them on before the commencement date of a new summit. You make a good point and I will be even more mindful to get them in earlier.
Tom M1EYP
In reply to M1EYP:
curiouser & curiouser
I thought the festival didn’t start until tomorrow Steve 