No, I don’t think so.
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Not in the slightest. Tom was commenting on the idea that members of the MT should take on the additional chore of correcting logs, I am talking about a course of action to deal with bad operating.
According to the database, activators have so far made 3,389,036 contacts. If only 0.1% of these have been logged incorrectly then someone tasked with correcting them will have to find and correct 3,389 contacts. That is one heck of a chore to be faced with after your evening meal! It is Andy, MM0FMF who is responsible for the database, I can just imagine what he would say if asked to do that little chore - the house would smell of ozone for weeks! 
Brian
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I can see where Victor is coming from on that one Brian, because I’d rather participants just sorted everything out between themselves, and you didn’t have to receive reports of anything. No reason why that can’t happen. I encounter the described problems from time-to-time, and just drop people concerned a PEM when/if necessary.
I don’t like this talk of “reporting” people. We’re all grown-ups with a shared passion for radio. It’s unnecessary, inefficient and ineffective.
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Activators should then check their "Who chased me" feature and drop them an email to advise "Not in log" where necessary.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t that what Phil was suggesting?
73
Victor GI4ONL
Thank you to various folk for the contributions to this most interesting thread. It is heartening to read Brian’s (G8ADD) contribution that something may be done to improve operating standards.
The database manager Andy suggested to me in a previous thread the possibility of him removing phantom contacts from the database, which is why I suggested it. Quite happy to e-mail the individuals and hope they react, one DL station was emailed about it last week and hasn’t removed the contact yet. A few chasers are not contactable as they have no registered e-mail address on QRZ.COM. Hopefully I can at least get the database manager to remove those. As both a chaser and activator myself I don;t like my tail being wagged by chasers who have not made a valid contact. Its cheating. Its as simple as that.
Whilst on the topic I had a classic case 15 minutues ago of a G station trying to work IW2OBX/P but not hearing him. IW2OBX gave up, and announced clearly that he could not complete the contact and then called QRZ? . Trouble is the other G station could not hear this. So I called and completed a QSO and was berated on air by the G station for “jumping in on his QSO” when the activator had clearly given up trying!
73 Phil
To add to this was listening and chasing DL/082 then HB/TG-007 came on same freq 14285. OH, called again got reply but from whom from the DL or the HB sota as chasers calling both.
Waited five minutes called again this time got hold of the HB sota. and confirmed was working the HB sota
Later’s DL sota moved to 14295 got him on there, already in Log, from 14285.
I may be in his log but not in mine hence the recalling him again on 14295 and redo contact.
Best one of all the I/LO-308 came up on spot as 144.330 so i tuned into 14330 and worked him he put up to many 4.s LOL.
Oh my been a funny old day so far
Oh yeah OE7HPI/7 on today on 14285 he’s clearly not sota today on OE/TA-1349 and was clearly calling as GMA and not Sota. Just his call is familiar with Sota activations.
And todays ghost
DD5LP clearly working a Spanish Sota and another German station doing same clearly NOT being wkd by the sota station.
yeah funny old day so far.
Karl in need of coffeeeee
Ed,
I know how frustrating it is, on both sides of the pileup. But I think there are things the activator can do to reduce the bedlam.
One is to remain calm and stay in control of the net, by announcing your intentions and how you will operate. The other is to make a list of all callsigns heard, then read that list out and ask all other stations to stand by until you have emptied the list. Then empty the list in the order YOU specify, limiting info to signal reports. If you keep in control of the frequency that will empty the list very quickly, one every 10 seconds with good operators. When you are ready to make a new list, ask for previous callers only. Some who don’t understand English too well and may be a bit excitable will call all the time - but short of going around and pulling the power out of their radio there is nothing you can do but request them to stand by.
By asking previous callers only, you prevent the frustration from building up in those who have called 10 times without getting a contact. You prevent (hopefully) new stronger stations from drowning them out.
You can also ask for “only the 4s” or “only GM” etc. And answer nobody else. Keep saying “all others stand by”. If they want a contact they have to cooperate.
And of course, asking for S2S, portables and QRP stations to call first is a good plan too.
These techniques usually sort some order out of chaos but it takes a strong will to avoid answering the strongest and most persistent callers. Stay in control of the frequency and everyone, even the persistent callers will realise you are doing it your way. If they want a contact they have to cooperate.
I have listened to a lot of activators using the “make a contact, then call QRZ?” technique and I just find it makes for a lot of frustration, as even the s2s callers are forced to join in the melee every time. It’s very unproductive especially when some callers insist on reciting their entire station setup and how long it is since the last contact. By telling them you only require a signal report you help them and help yourself.
Good work doing so many summits in one day.
73
Andrew VK1DA/VK2UH
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Since I started this thread, let me say I have no problem handling a pile-up, as has been said, if you want to hear a pile-up, go on a DX-Pedition (which I have - 200+ contacts in one hour in one large pileup I ran on 20m from VK9HR comes to mind).
My posting here was more intended so that some of the people who are repeat calling or end-calling will hopefully read this and think twice next time.
That being said, listening this morning, I can see one UK chaser who has possibly not read the thread yet, or has simply chosen to ignore it. No I am not naming the callsign here before anyone asks.
I personally (and this is my personal opinion) don’t believe blocking repeat offenders from access to SOTA resources is the correct approach. I am much more in favour of the friendly email approach mentioned by others in this thread.
Lets see what happens.
On less active bands or where the propagation dictates a limited number of chasers hearing the activator, I like the way we used to do this on 30m SSB in Australia. As we chasers could normally hear each other, we would call in-turn, not over the top of each other. The activator would note down all the calls he or she heard and then go through them and at the end check for any that had been missed. A very orderly and polite state of affairs! Perhaps this is only possible with the Aussies friendly nature though?
73 Ed.
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I’m not sure of the logic of this, you would just transfer the frustration to those who are being asked not to call, and in any case you will not know if people are following your instructions as you couldn’t list the later callers first time through. Another source of frustration is calling by numbers. As a G8 I have plenty of experience of that particular frustration! I well remember one station who did it by numbers - it took him over 40 minutes to get to 8, and by then he must have been running out of time or battery power because he took two 8’s and went straight onto nine! Meanwhile as a chaser I was sitting listening to him and missing out on the activity elsewhere on the band!
The friendly email is the first step!
Brian
Hi,
May be the manners are better in CW…
I have 21.101 sota qso in my log and i still enjoy the pile-up.
I do not complain about nothing, still thinking that may be
on the other side, the guy is having trouble or some difficulties.
2 weeks ago i sent a mail to a french station, saying that activators when on summits
are able to hear very well all the stations, even the /QRP, and that he doesn’t need
to give his callsign so many times. Since my e-mail, he now send his call only once.
As chasers are not so many and almost the same, the best way in case of bad manners
is to explain what to do without blaming him/her.
73 from Gerald F6HBI
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HI Gerald
I’m glad the French station you contacted has responded positively to your idea - I know him well, as I read his callsign the first time he sends it 90% or more of the time as he is one of the strongest French chasers in SOTA, however he doesn’t hear too well…the receive performance does not match the transmit performance! It’s frustrating when you would be able to respond to the guy after the first time call but you have to wait until the final 3rd call then the dreaded K before replying! The said station does not have an e-mail address listed in QRZ or I would have also contacted him with the excellent suggestion you made.
73 Phil
My position is clearly against myself becoming a policeman checking the “WHO CHASED ME” list and writing to any claiming-phantom-QSO-with-me chasers asking them to delete their phantom QSOs.
The reason is simple, I don’t care about other’s phantom QSOs.
He who cares may wish to become the policeman of SOTA. Not me.
What I do when I have some time is producing the “my chaser log” list without the confirmation asterisc “unconfirmed QSOs”. Then I check the activators log of those QSO.
Sometimes I’ve found it was my fault because I made typing errors or wrote a wrong summit reference due to multiple activations being carried out by an activator that day and possible wrong spots or I logged a wrong band/mode in error. In this case, I’ve corrected my error and I’ve got my asterisc. Problem solved.
Sometimes I’ve found it was activator’s typing error when writing my callsign or logging a wrong band/mode in error or even the wrong date/time in error. In these cases, I’ve written a PM here or e-mailed to the activator and he has always kindly corrected the error, so I’ve got my asterisc.
Sometimes, I’ve realised that there was not any error neither on my side, nor the activator’s. The activator log checking just told me that I was not in the log, so I simply deleted my QSO and the QSO without asterisc disappeared from the list. Problem solved.
Ideally this is what every chaser should do from time to time in order to clear his log up of typing errors, logging mistakes and phantom QSOs, but it’s unlikely because it takes time and it’s not a fun activity, rather boring…
I’m also against backlisting any colleagues and not working them because they are not doing it the right way. I think it’s much better being patient with them and trying to teach them how to do it properly. Blacklisting will irritate those in such lists and this will likely cause problems in the form of deliberate QRM, etc. Being patient and teaching is the right way to solve this problem, IMHO.
Best 73 de Guru
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How do you check the activators log?
Hi Dave, Go into database, click on “view results”, select “Actvator Log”, filter the country you want, in your case, default country will be England. Scroll down to callsign you want, click on “view log” then use date filter for the year you want to view…E&OE 
You will need to be logged in…
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Very easy.
You need to be logged-on to the database, of course.
Then go to View Results \ Activator Roll of Honour
Then you list the activators in a given association and find the callsign of the activator whose log you want to check:
Then click on “view” at the right most column for the activator’s callsign you are interested in, for instance EA2WX and…
Then you clic on “Show log” and there you are.
Good luck.
Best 73 de Guru
Let us backtrack for a minute.
Tailenders, or as Ed puts it in the opening post, “tail end Charlie” - why do people do it?
The elephant in the room is that people do it because it works.
Put yourself in the place of an activator who has just called QRZ? and is answered by a cacophony of calls and he is unable to pick one out, then as the noise fades, tail end Charlie drops his call into the gathering silence.
Does the activator ignore him because tailending is bad?
No, he works him.
You will see this time and again, tailend Charlie is the late bird that gets the worm. People notice this and imitate it.
Do we say that tailending is actually due to poor activator operating standards or just accept that it will happen because it increases the chasing success rate?
Brian
Thanks Guru got it 
Dave
(M6RUG)
The result is an even longer time where chasers are transmitting, often when the activator has already selected and is working a chaser only to get QRM from “tail end Charlie”.
Deliberate “Tail end Charlie” operation is bad practice and I ignore them and try to work one of the earlier callers. If I can’t remember any (of haven’t been able to discern any from the noise), I will call QRZ again andd ignore TEC.
I would advise other activators to do the same.
Ed.
Yeah, the “very different meaning” confused the snot out of me for a few weeks when I started chasing SOTA (SSB). I had no idea how to call.
Now I get the semantic extension to “who is calling (next)”, but dang.
Anybody want to write a few SOTA activator scripts with different styles?
The QRZ style works great with the number of SSB chasers in the US. I’d say with 20 or fewer expected chasers, that is efficient.
wunder
That’s exactly what happens on most of my activations on 20m CW.
As soon as the spot is raised on Sotawatch, many chasers go to the frequency and call. Some of them send their callsign once, some others send it twice and some even send it 3 times (3 times is far too much). Some other send it once and after a few seconds in which I am trying to understand something from the wall of signals in order to pick something up and send the signal report, they send their callsign again. They better don’t do this. Sending the callsing once or twice in each activator listening time should be enough. The more callers sending callsing one on top of the other, the more difficult to understand and pick up something for the activator, which means he will work slower and the anxious chasers will have to wait longer.
In the begining of the pile up those chasers having most success are:
1- the ones putting a huge signal much stronger than anyone else.
2- the ones calling at the end when most of the other chasers have gone quiet.
3- the ones not so strong but calling with a distinctive rythm, tone or slightly shifted off frequency.
If you are not going to be a super strong signal to the activator’s receiver, you better wait a few minutes until the bigger signal chasers had bagged the summit and gone off the frequency.
I have written this sometime in the past but I’ll say it again:
The huge pile up, in the worst case, doesn’t last more than 20 minutes, assuming the activator is working one QSO/minute, so bear in mind that in case you can’t be picked up by an activator in the beginning of the activation when the pile up is bigger, all you’ll have to do is waiting 15 minutes and you will probably be calling him almost alone.
It’s true that you risk loosing him in case of changing conditions or activator going QRT too soon but, that’s not the end of the world.
This is a hobby and nothing happens if we have to wait 15 minutes. If we can’t wait that long (short), let’s give it up and chase later or some other day when we will have the necessary time to enjoy the hobby without causing troubles to our hobby mates.
Best 73 de Guru
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So true Guru.
As a QRP chaser it’s pointless for me to call early on unless there’s no one else around.
It’s not unusual to be the last call in an activators log when I check!
Another thing I do is only send my call once, and then wait for 3 more QSOs before I try again.
If everyone did that it would reduce the wall of noise.
As an activator I try and note at least 2 or 3 calls from a pile up.
The good thing about activating is that you very quickly get to know your audience and partial callsigns are easily resolved. The regular callers will be recognizable, even in amongst QRM. You can then work one and immediately call the next one with NW CALLSIGN 599 BK and so on.
I also work tail enders if that’s all that I managed to hear. I can’t see any point in not doing so 
I’ll also work the annoying callers! If they’re annoying me they’re also annoying all the other chasers. The best thing for everyone is to get rid of them as soon as possible. It’s a win win situation. Being annoying is a tried and tested pile up busting method 
Above all, half the enjoyment for me is working a CW pile up. If I wanted an orderly QSO I’ll just stay at home and send a few CQs from the comfort of my shack
73
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