Other SOTA sites: SOTAwatch | SOTA Home | Database | Video | Photos | Shop | Mapping | FAQs | Facebook | Contact SOTA

7032 KHz Interference


#1

The commercial printer which is operating between 7031-7035 KHz continuously has been disrupting SOTA CW communications for the last few weeks. It may be better if this frequency is avoided until the printer QSYs and activators operate somewhere else, which I noticed some op’s are already doing.

73 Phil


#2

In reply to G4OBK:
Hi Phil!

Presume you mean ‘pirate’. Heaven knows where these EMC deficient printers get to these days - hi!

73

Jack (;>J


#3

In reply to GM4COX:
HI Jack

By printer I meant the commercial data transmitter (possibly military) that is operating around 7032 KHz. Sorry for the confusion.

73 Phil


#4

In reply to G4OBK:
Military Qrm also here s 7-8 more days pse Activator Sota Qsy nw 7.029-7.030


#5

In reply to G4OBK:

Hi Phil;

I notice that the QRP people are getting ever more militant about us filling up the qrp end of the 40m cw band and also similarly on 20m and I must admit I can not altogether blame them especially on 40m where we can have up to 4 activation’s going on at the same time with their associated pile ups.

Perhaps we should consider moving to the bottom end of 40m where there seems to be very little activity during daylight hours (at least with my antenna hi)??
There was an activation on 7 003 this week using a 1khz splt which was a joy to work especially as the pile ups seem to be getting ever deeper.

73 de Ken G3XQE


#6

In reply to G4OBK:

Hi Phil;

I notice that the QRP people are getting ever more militant about us filling up the qrp end of the 40m cw band and also similarly on 20m and I must admit I can not altogether blame them especially on 40m where we can have up to 4 activation’s going on at the same time with their associated pile ups.

Perhaps we should consider moving to the bottom end of 40m where there seems to be very little activity during daylight hours (at least with my antenna hi)??
There was an activation on 7 003 this week using a 1khz splt which was a joy to work especially as the pile ups seem to be getting ever deeper.

73 de Ken G3XQE


#7

In reply to G3XQE:

In reply to G4OBK:

Hi Phil;

I notice that the QRP people are getting ever more militant about us
filling up the qrp end of the 40m cw band and also similarly on 20m
and I must admit I can not altogether blame them especially on 40m
where we can have up to 4 activation’s going on at the same time with
their associated pile ups.

These days even one point summits attract big pile-ups, Ken. My activation of the one point GW/NW-071 Mynydd Bodafon yesterday, produced over 100 contacts, virtually everyone of them regular SOTA chasers!

73 Mike
2E0YYY


#8

In reply to G3XQE:
Hi Ken…
I have 2 elements Yagi…
Peak is at 7033.0 and 7032(S9).
Good suggestion to go to the 7003 and up ~1k.
VY 73! from Robert SP8RHP.


#9

In reply to G3XQE:

I notice that the QRP people are getting ever more militant about us filling up the qrp end of the 40m cw

You got a reference or link to this Ken?

Andy
CT9/MM0FMF


#10

In reply to G3XQE:
Well if your activating with QRP I think 7.030-7.04 is fair game.
And if you go down to 7.003 its out of bounds for US hams except those with the highest class license. 7.025 is the lowest the rest of us can go.


#11

In reply to KB1NFC:

100’s contacts on a single activation… Gotta love the old world.


#12

In reply to MM0FMF:

In reply to G3XQE:

I notice that the QRP people are getting ever more militant about us
filling up the qrp end of the 40m cw

You got a reference or link to this Ken?

Andy
CT9/MM0FMF

I’m guessing maybe it’s just a gut feeling that Ken has?
Certainly on 20M there is one particular Op who seems to guard 14060 with an iron rod (or brass key) and just comes on and CQs over the top of everything. Mind you he’s also a SOTA chaser and does the same anytime there is any “DX” activating.
I noticed, this week on 40M, a couple of ops doing the same (ie calling CQ on top of an activation).
As a QRP Op I do appreciate keeping the QRP Frequencies clear and allowing a little bit of breathing space each side. The majority of folks already do that, operating generally between 058 - 059 and 061 -63 and 028 -029 and 031-034 on 20 and 40 respectively, so it’s not much of an issue. I have however, on a few occasions, heard activations starting bang on 030 with not a single QRL? or anything, right on top of an in progress QRP QSO.

Anyway I think we need to sort the pack out some way. Today was just sheer bedlam on several activations. People calling continuously over the top of each other, Folks asking for callsign and reference without ever listening themselves.
The sad thing is, it just makes it longer for the activator to get through the pile up and then they may run out of time before they manage to get through everyone.
It was good to hear DJ3AX working by prefixs this week. It really did make things move along more smoothly (apart from the PA0 who thinks he has a G4 prefix :slight_smile:

Whoops sorry for the topic drift!
Pete


#13

In reply to MM0FMF:

In reply to G3XQE:

I notice that the QRP people are getting ever more militant about us
filling up the qrp end of the 40m cw

You got a reference or link to this Ken?

Andy
CT9/MM0FMF

Hi Andy;

I am on 40 and 20 CW every day, I don’t need a reference or a link, I hear deliberate jamming of activators all by my self, it started on 20m and now seems to have spread to 40m, I am excluding PA0MAX from this.

I know that most activators are qrp but the pile up of chasers certainly isn’t, I only run 100w to a dipole but judging by the deflection of my S meter a lot are running considerably more erp.

To also be fair, as noted elsewhere in this thread I have also heard the pile ups killing non SOTA qrp qso’s.

With the rapid growth of SOTA activity, perhaps we should think about doing something before a war breaks out from which every one loses.
Please also note that I recognise that I am also part of the problem.

As regards the comments about the Stateside bandplan, as far as I am aware this is a european day time problem, as far as I am aware there have not been any Stateside contacts on 40m during the day and 40m European activity pretty much dies after 22:00z when the old timers (like my self) still using cw go to bed.

This is not a rant or a complaint, just a suggestion that we should perhaps give it some thought.

73 de Ken G3XQE


#14

In reply to G3XQE:

Some time back the MT discussed this problem and recommended that 7032 be used as the SOTA centre of activity on 40. In fact the options are quite limited. The RSGB bandplan assigns 7000 to 7040 to CW, but as pointed out above using frequencies below 7025 limit the opportunity for stateside contacts, and 7030 is the QRP centre of activity. I don’t know how much terrain the QRP people would like to claim, but the fact remains that activators are almost all QRP and are entitled to work near 7030, if they move too far from that frequency then they enter into competition with QRO operators, to their disadvantage. Note also that the bandplan is voluntary, there is no licence obligation to confine CW to any segment of the band, and the MT are powerless to do anything but make recommendations - which they have done. In view of the constraints outlined above it is difficult to see what more can be done.

73

Brian G8ADD


#15

In reply to G8ADD:

Hi Brian;

Most versions of the amateur code state that " the amateur is considerate"
All I am advocating is that we adhere to this code and are considerate of other operators.

I am not in favour of creating new legislation ie MT decrees on operating frequencies, this always creates more problems than it solves.

Activators can choose to operate where they wish and alerts and self spots take care of being found. Some activators are already adopting this practice as already noted. I only suggest that others consider the possibility of chosing other freqencies negating the problem of the Russian data station which appears at regular intervals and reducing the friction being caused with other qrp operators at the same time.

I would be interested to hear of “day time” activators on who are getting Stateside contacts on 40m cw, as noted many times, it is not easy to work qrp cw activators on the other side of Western Europe let alone Stateside.

In conclusion all that I am suggesting is that activators solve the problem with the Russian data station and reduce our impact on the non SOTA operators by chosing other frequencies.

73 de Ken G3XQE


#16

In reply to G3XQE:

Yes, Ken, but where do you suggest that the SOTA traffic actually be moved to?

Perhaps we should turn this problem around and look at it from the other side? Bearing in mind that most activations on CW are QRP, and some of them are rock-bound or use “rubber crystals”, perhaps we should instead suggest that the chasers use QRP. Most modern transceivers can be turned down to 10 or 5 watts: some of the older ones are less flexible, the only way I can reduce the output of my TS-520S is to remove one of the 6146’s, but by and large the inhabitants of the CW pile-ups have the capability if not the will to change to QRP.

Incidentally, I can’t quote you chapter and verse on this, but I know that some transatlantic QSOs have taken place in daylight It may not be commonplace but it is possible.

73

Brian G8ADD


#17

In reply to G4ISJ:

Today was just sheer bedlam on several activations. People calling continuously over
the top of each other, Folks asking for callsign and reference without
ever listening themselves.

A bit more drift but I need to mention it ! . . .

In order for a QSO to have taken place, the chaser must have heard the activator’s callsign ~and~ the SOTA reference.

I’ve experienced a few activators out there who just work through the pileup with a QRZ bewteen QSOs, often for 10s of minutes, sometimes the reference is not mentioned for the majority of the activation: the activator probably feeling safe in the knowledge that everyone has seen the spot!

That’s why I always get the activatior to confirm the reference ~if~ I haven’t yet heard it from his/her own voice. Likewise with the callsign.

Bad operating by activators (albeit in the minority) exacerbates the problem of chasers repeatedly asking for callsign and reference.

As for calling continuously - especially when the activaor is responding - that’s just poor!


#18

In reply to G8ADD:

Hi Brian;

I am suggesting de-regulation ie there is no set frequency for SOTA traffic, that way the frequency is chosen by the activator having consideration for conditions and other operators, this would hopefully result in a reduction of the concentration of activity around any one particular frequency and thus reducing any ongoing friction with any particular flavour of other operators.

The reason for having a traffic frequency is that like minded operators can easily find or monitor for each other. I suggest that with the technology currently available to SOTA operators and the level of activity on 40 and 20m that we no longer have this requirement.

I would suggest that the chance of getting all the chasers to reduce power to 5 watts is about as great as getting all the contesters to throw away their monster beams and multi kilowatt amplifiers.
Regarding removing a 6146 from your TS530, in ye olden days KW electronics arranged that when the 160m band was selected on the KW 2000 the heater voltage was turned off to one of the 6146’s, needless to say when I purchased a second hand KW2000A I found that the switch contact had been bridged over :slight_smile:

73 Ken


#19

Another three cents:
As a qrp-operator I do not yet grasp the concept of qrp-frequencies. The fun is the qso in the free world of the bands, not in a fenced reservation zone. IMHO.

If there is a problem with congestion, I favour spreading activations across the band(s) when possible hardware-wise. It increases the challenge for chasers (espcially fun when chasing with qrp).

Sooner or later someone will spot the activator on 7026 or 7018 (at the time you can safely activate an EU-summit during daylight there are no qrp-condx for US - but of course we need to look for US more and more on the higher bands even without awards for DX-qsos). Then it comes to bedlam and that is IMHO the bigger topic (sorry for drift): The initial pileup after a spot will sound somewhat discouraging for someone just testing his CW-proficiency and runs qrp to a compromised antenna - which makes it extremely difficult to control a pile-up.

Even with a better signal it is sometimes difficult to keep to a tight rhythm to sustain “order”. But SOTA should be fun not a challenge like a Clipperton-pileup which would reduce the motivation to activate, the number of activators and they time the deal with the callers on the qrg.

Maybe some tips should be gathered here to smoothen the stress, like “working down the bands” (20 to 30 to 40) and starting somewhere in the band to have a few minutes without spot-pileup, escaping from a uncontrollable pileup to another qrg etc.
The rest can only be recommendations, like better chasing with LP/qrp to reduce QRM for the other listeners, behaving as one would want to have it being on the other side - and maybe even naming a few very bad offenders.

Personally I´m reluctant about real “up”-split as it would significantly increase the bandwith used for SOTA activations. Split only works effectively if callers really spread, other than all calling exactly 1 up (which “only” clears the activators qrg from some/most qrm but would cause an unworkable zerobeat pileup like skimmer pileups of “clickers” in contests). A “1up”-pileup in reality quickly eats 2khz and more (nobody will have a ragchew between both qrgs…).

P.S. About more frequently naming the SOTA-ref: It is really difficult to send it AFTER your call as then there are some/many automatically calling again so the ref drowns in qrm. What recently works was to comfirm the report of a caller with “tu fm DM/TH-… de DL8MBS” thus mentioning the ref before the call.


#20

In reply to G8ADD:

In my opinion, 7032 has been a very good choice until the intruder data station stepped in. The question is whether we accept the illegal station and move to other frequency of if we try to fight against it to make 7032 clear again.

The intruder is well known, it is AT3004D – from Voronezh Russia using PSK2 120 baud (source http://www.iarums-r1.org/iarums/latest.pdf)

If we opt to do something about the problem then it could help if MT officially contacts IARU Region 1 Monitoring system and asks if any complaint had been or will be sent to the Russian authorities about this illegal station.
Even if the Russian side will not do anything at least we should try.

Intruder Watch UK contact:
http://www.rsgb.org/committees/honoraryofficers/intruderwatchcoordinator.php
Chris Cummings, G4BOH, E-mail: iwrsgb.org.uk

Regarding an alternative SOTA calling frequency, temporary or permanent, I suggest 7034 and 7028.
The segment 7000-7010 is also a good day time alternative, being empty most of the time but bear in mind this is also a DX segment (not used at daytime) and should be avoided near sun rise and sun set times when greyline DX propagation occurs.
After all, in the time of internet/Sotawatch, activators can chose any clear frequency they like and spot themselves. The calling frequency is for those who do not use spotting.

Ken is absolutely right about Stateside contacts on 40m. As there is no daytime propagation between EU and America so we can forget about Stateside SOTA contacts on 40m. We are talking about EU QRM problem. US SOTA freq can remain 7032 because US guys will not hear the QRM from Russia either.

73 Petr OK1CZ