There was a time when that was the case. Nowadays, I’m not so sure …
73,
Walt (G3NYY)
The respected German national amateur radio magazine “Funk Amateur” in it’s article about the 60 metre band becoming available in Germany (on page 161 of the February edition) tells it’s readers that 15w EIRP is 15W PEP from the rig when using a half wave dipole antenna and assuming 2 dB of cable/connector losses.
Our discussions here concluded 2.5w at the rig, not 15w.
Not so well respected now then!
Hi Andy,
The writer and editor clearly don’t have a firm grasp on the physics. Not that that makes them bad people but an errata would be in order.
Ed, if you don’t believe the earlier well based posts you need to get an antenna modelling program and do the hard yards yourself. There are free versions of EZNEC available. Get one and go through the scenarios. It takes an afternoon if you are reasonably expert in these matters. As has been stated we do not operate in free space so formulae based on that give the wrong answer.
Garbage in, garbage out.
It always helps to read up on a subject and do some work before expressing an opinion.
Stick to 2.5 W and you will be fine. Run 5 W and you had better have your ducks in a row as otherwise you might exceed 15 W eirp. (No comments about how to phase the ducks please).
Most stations running 10 W will definitely exceed 15 W eirp. There is no miracle about to occur that will make 10 W or more Kosher if you have a 15 W eirp limit. No wait, there’s the Miracle Whip.
73
Ron
VK3AFW.
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Hi Ron I HAVE accepted the 2.5w guidance, which is why I have also sent an email to the magazine pointing out their error.
Ed
Hi Ed,
My apologies, I misunderstood.
Occasionally reputable publications do print something of poor quality (wrong) material but on something like this they should have had it vetted by someone “in the game”. Good on you for pointing out their slip up.
73
Ron
VK3AFW
Reply from FunkAmateur:
Der YO9IRF im Thread hat insofen tendenziell Recht, als es durch Reflexion am Erdbodenuntre unter günstigsten Bedingungen bis zu 6 dB “ground gain” geben kann.
Für die BNetzA ist das aber nicht relevant, sondern es ist zulässig (und wird auch immer so gemacht, siehe Programm Watt, siehe Programm Wattwächter von der BNetzA selber), mit dem theoretischen Freiraumgewinn zurechnen.
Also Dipol G = 2,14 dBi, um es ganz genau zusagen.
Real dürften durch Kabelverluste, Steckerverluste, ein geschleiftes SWR-Meter, evtl. sogar Antennenumschalter usw. immer Pi mal Daumen 2,14 dB Verluste zusammenkommen.
Bleiben also 15 W PEP Senderausgangsleistung.
Genau so habe ich das gemeint.
Crude and short translation the regulator in Germany (BNetza) uses 2.14 dBi as the Isotropic gain of a dipole (not the ground gain of 6+Dbi), hence, with 2.14dB cable/connector losses 15w PEP from the rig will be under the 15w EIRP at the antenna.
Of course other countries might use different values for the Isotropic gain of a dipole. This really should be defined at an IARU level to be consistant.
Ed.
This kind of Admiral-Nelson-I-See-No-Ships attitude displayed by your regulator is not what is expected from German institutions were accuracy, quality and getting it right first time is the norm.
If this is how standards are moving then there maybe hope for the UK post-Brexit! 
1 Like
No, typical behaviour of a german authority, as it minimises work. 
How dare they copy the well established British way of ignoring problems.
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Actually I thought that process was originally Australian “She’ll be right, Mate!”.
And other countries might use different values for the watt. For example, in Belgium it seems that
1 Belgian Watt = 10 conventional watts.
73,
Walt (G3NYY)
And it seems dBi is a new unit for attenuation. Does PTB know about this? Not mentioned on their web site.
Ed when the “never made a mistake here” guys are carrying on the appropriate expression for this is “Things are crook in Tallarook”.
73
Ron
VK3AFW
Hi Ed, interesting topic as I wouldn’t pretend to be an expert in electronics or German (I’m an amateur after all).
Just out of interest what does the phrase above mean? It seems to be referring to Pi but using 2.14 rather than 3.14. Also what has Pi got to do with this calculation?
Danke
Pi mal Daumen - in English would be a “rough rule of thumb” - or “guesstimate” - nothing to do with 3.1412…".
The 2.14db loss balances out the 2.14 dBi gain of the Dipole antenna - hence the authors published guide to say that 15w PEP from a rig will give 15w EIRP at the antenna (which most on this list disagree with as the author - and the authorities use 2.14 dBi as the Isotropic gain for a dipole rather than the directional Isotropic gain of 6 dBi).
Ed.
Hi Ed,
Sadly it seems that 60 m may never be allocated to VK amateurs. The band is used by emergency, safety and law enforcement organisations and the authorities, I’m told, consider the risk of QRM from VK’s not sticking to 15 W eirp max is too great.
Good luck with your 60 m challenge.
73
Ron
VK3AFW
Hi Ron,
Given that the 60m band is listed in the latest Australian frequency allocation document from the ACMA, I would expect it to be implemented during 2017 - otherwise, why add it to the table?
73 Ed.
Hi Ed,
A good question. I don’t know the answer. My informant has been right in the past. I have scanned the 2017 plan, but the chapter on implementation dates wasn’t found. There needs to be a change to the Licence Conditions published.
The WIA was pushing for a 70 MHz allocation before trying for the 5.3 MHz allocation and the 70 MHz allocation does not get a guernsey in the 2017 plan. My informant said both 4 m and 60 m were dead in the water.
I am making further enquiries, but given the 1 kW Test fiasco, the concern about QRM from non-compliant stations has to be given some credence.
IMO the stumbling block to even a 15 W eirp allocation is that the band is allocated to paying customers who do not want to move. Only one channel seems to be inactive. Sharing with the Air Ambulance or State Emergency Service isn’t going to work.
73
Ron
VK3AFW
Hi Ron,
You could very well be right as that was the story through last year - no chance of 60m in Australia in the next few years - which is why, when it appeared in the ACMA plan, I was surprised.
I agree the primary users probably don’t wish to move, but there may be a bigger picture, that we don’t know about.
In any case, 60m will be a wait and see situation. I was surprised that the WIA was chasing a 4m allocation, I can’t see the value in that, in your part of the world - or does NZ have 4m ??
Ed.
Hi Ed,
With apologies for getting off topic.
The ACMA has been going through a comprehensive review. The outcome is a number of 5 year plans. So wisely they have included all that might be done in that period. Of course this does not place an obligation on the ACMA to implement everything on the plan in the plan period. Priorities change, or get changed by those with political clout.
So while the ACMA has forecast a possible allocation of a 60 m band it’s not imminent. New digital technologies make the band even more useful to utilities and emergency services. Radio Australia is closing but their allocation is in the International SW broadcast bands so that isn’t going to help with 60 m.
The US allocation is more generous in power even if restricted to channels. I suppose that’s their way of handling possible interference issues and retaining most of the band for more critical traffic.
Anyway having the band listed in the plan at least does offer some hope. Perhaps that’s all it’s there for.
70 MHz is being pushed by one member of the WIA board, and I presume some members. The demise of the nation wide ABC analog TV transmissions has potentially cleared the band.
Stay warm,
73
Ron
VK3AFW