Xiegu X6100/6200, the real FT-817 successor? (Part 2)

Equipment
21

Well - FWIW and just my opinion, but nearly all of the modern radios fall short of totally replacing the FT-817ND and the FT-818ND – except for the Icom IC-705.

I was on board for the KX3 when it was first announced. It was going to be “The FT-817 KILLER”. All the good points of the FT-817 and SDR. As data slowly trickled out, no 2m and no 70cm was the deal breaker to me. Later Elecraft announced a 2m unit for the KX3. But it was only 2.5-watts. Still no 70cm.

It wasn’t until the ICOM IC-705 appeared that the FT-81x series had a true competitor on all bands. Again - JMHO - but Icom made the IC-705 nearly perfect. The main points for me were 160m through 70cm, All-Mode, internal battery that can easily be removed, and no internal antenna tuner. The modular capability of the pieces means I can carry what I need and leave behind thar I do not need.

My favorite antenna is an Inverted-L antenna 136-ft (41.5m) using a 40-ft (12m) vertical fiberglass mast and getting the remainder of the wire as high into a tree as possible. The Icom AH-705 remote automatic antenna tuner is set at the base of the mast, with between 1 and 6 x 33-ft (10m) radials. I’ve run the AH-705 out as far as 75-ft (23m) from the radio and it worked fine.

In places where the 136-ft wire don’t fit, I’ll often fall back to an 86-ft (26.2m) Inverted-L. If no room for that, I’ll fall back to a 43-ft (13.1m) wire slightly spiral-wrapped around the 40-ft mast.

For places where the mast is too heavy to carry I’ll often try to get as much wire as possible into the trees as high as possible.

I do realize that not everyone needs 2m and 70cm. I do. That cuts the number of radios available to me a great deal. But the only things I wish the IC-705 had were the 220 MHz and 1200 MHz bands. Beyond this, it is my perfect SOTA/POTA radio.

Just as a side-note, these are many of the same reasons I still have two Yaesu FT-857Ds. 160m throufh 70cm, all-modes, vert low RX current requirement, and a removable front panel. No radio in production today can replace that.

Raining in Germany this morning. No activating… but I’ll be hunting SOTA-POTA most of the day.

Vy73 – Mike – DL/KD5KC.
Strahlungen, Germany. JO50cg.

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22

Hi Mike,
We all have our own opinions, in this case I agree that the FT817ND set a high standard to meet as a portable “shack in a box” radio and I regret selling mine.
Compared to today’s radios the 817’s receiver would be found lacking but the overall, robust package has not been matched by any new radios (IMHO). To my thinking, the IC705 (and KX2/3, X6100/6200) miss the target as regards robustness - as well as, apart from the 705 lacking V/UHF. Even though I generally use resonant antennas a built-in ATU does have the advantage to “trim” an antenna’s match to the radio.
A radio as robust as the FT-817, of a similar size, with a built-in ATU and perhaps 15-20 watts output would be, for me, the ideal portable radio - I am still looking for such an animal.At the moment the Xiegu G90 is the nearest option I have found, if it was half the size it might be ideal.

73 Ed.

PS - be careful in your chosen location Mike as Strahlungen means radiation (usually the ionising kind) !!

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23

Hi Robert,
Even though the presenter says this is a loaner production model, I wonder having looked at the video that compares Prototype to Production, whether the radio in this video still has the older firmware as the start-up delays are gone in the Production model in the “Compare” video.

I wish people would not create YouTube videos that are so long (here over 1 and a half hours). OK this presenter has added markers but I was put off watching the video as soon as I saw how long it was. YouTube used to restrict video length, it seems they no longer do.

73 Ed.

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24

I think its nearest competitor is the IC-7000, which judging by the specs is a better rig except that it is slightly bigger, slightly heavier, and more power hungry on receive, it is best seen as a replacement for the IC-706.

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Good morning Ed.

I believe the FT-817 series (817, ND and 818) set a number of records. As I know it, the series began in in 2000. It was manufactured until 2022, that is a 22-year run. I do not know of any other radio that was built that long.

Additionally, I remember when it was announced in 2017 that the FT-817 series had sold 250,000 radios. I believe it may have sold something near 300,000 radios before it was discontinued.

At the Dayton ham fest Yaesu was asked if there would be an SDR version of the 817 made. The answer was that as long as the 817 series was selling, it would not be replaced.

I have two FT-817NDs. One is completely original nearly new in the box, I have turned it on but never made a QSO with it. The second one is loaded with the speech processor, the DSP unit, the Collins 2.3 kHz SSB filter and the Collins 500 Hz CW filter. I have made many QSOs with that radio.

I agree that the 817 is a very well built radio. The 705 is not as well built. But it exceeds the 817 in every other way. We will have to agree to disagree about the tuner being built into the radio. If I am climbing a summit for a VHF/UHF contest, the last thing I need is the extra size and weight of an internal tuner for HF. I’m happy to leave it behind. A friend in Texas was the same way, he wanted the tuner in one package. I tild him to super-glue the AH-705 to the top of the IC-705. He must have thought it was a good idea, except instead of super-glue he used a couple of strong rubber-bands.

For my needs, as it is now, the 705 is nearly perfect for me. There is nothing better for my needs right now.

Vy73 – Mike – DL/KD5KC.
Strahlungen, Germany. JO50cg.

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The IC-7000 has a removable front panel? I did not realize that.

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I presume that was a few years ago - not this year as the 817/818 is no longer produced. There were rumours (but only rumours it seems) about an FT791 to fit the 991/891 numbering. It would be an SDR-based radio but, like the 891 without v/uhf. The story goes that after the reaction to the 891 not having V/UHF the development of the 791 was stopped.

Internal ATU is optional (great inside the g90 though) - as you say a more weight problem but for me an external ATU unit being used because a radio has no internal ATU is even worse because of the extra cables and weight and power requirements. Personal opinion.

73 Ed.

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28

I like my FT817ND very much. I have used it on activations on all bands 160m to 70cm, and to drive transverters for 23cm and 13cm. I’ve used it on all modes am, fm, ssb, cw and digi (FT8).
But, I’ve never done all of that on the same activation, so I have been carrying a lot of unnecessary stuff!

My ideal kit would be a small light multimode HF rig, and a small light multimode VHF / UHF rig - one or other of them offering 4m and 6m. Both would be physically robust and power efficient, especially low current on rx.

I already have an Elecraft T1 tuner which is super efficient with its tiny latching relays. It has been running on the same PP3 battery for about 10 years.

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The problem is that one person’s perfect rig will not be perfect for someone else. I have an FT817ND that I don’t use much. As a primarily CW operator I want full break-in (without a chattering relay) and a narrow filter. It was this latter requirement that lead me to homebrew my SOTA rigs.

PS. Thanks Mike @KD5KC for yesterday’s chase while I was on Sharp Haw G/NP-029. I worked two Americans on 17m, one in Germany and one in New York. The rig was my homebrew superhet.

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30

If I hadn’t spent a sporran busting amount on a KX2 and a 705 I’d still be happily using my two 817s. But having spent so much, there was no need to keep the 817s.

The 817 does feel indestructible compared to the KX2. It only needs to be a little damp and my eyes are glued to the KX2 display bezel to see if any water is creeping underneath. Then you pick them up and realise just how light the KX2 really is. Apart from that the KX2 is obviously a better radio which you realise when you’ve used one for a while. I’ve not used the 705 so much and that’s because it too appears be made from neutron star matter like the 817 from its apparent weight and you get spoilt by having the auto ATU in the KX2.

Whereas one 817 could do all my HF SOTA needs and could be used for VHF/UHF and transverter driving I need a KX2 and 705 to do the same. I actually think you need one of each because you can always throw the 817 about without a care and it will take a licking and keep on ticking and keep the other two for best. But that way leads to the madness of having 13-HF radios and 5-2m radios and 1-2/70cms radio. At least I’m down to only 10-HF radios now. :wink:

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Hey there. Yes - nice to catch you on the air as well. My taxi-driver (nephew Andi - DJ5KC) is gone for a few days, so I am stuck chasing. Been getting some good stuff… for me anyway. TA and TF on SOTA or POTA are hard from the far corner of West Texas. So I’m using every opportunity to grab what I can.

SOTA has been well established since we started visiting the in-laws. But two years ago when I was here it seemed like few knew about POTA. That sure has taken off now. Andi has planned most of my visit to activate dual SOTA/POTA whenever possible.

I’ll be around central Germany for about 2 more weeks before going back to Texas. Perhaps we’ll QSO again.

Vy73 – Mike – DL/KD5KC.
Strahlungen, Germany. JO50cg.

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Will you be attending Ham Radio Friedrichshafen? (28-30 June)? It would be a shame if you were still in Germany and missed going to it!

73 Ed.

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33

I’ll never sell my FT-817, it’s a truly unique radio. Despite the heavy power consumption, I’ve never been stuck with a flat battery. Since discovering the Hobbyking Lipos with a good fit in the radio many years ago, battery drain has never been a problem.
Like many for others, the KX2 has seen more airtime over the past few years but it does suffer from poor ingress protection whether it be ants or moisture.
On more recent activations though, the FX-4CR has been the rig of choice. It’s very well constructed and quite solid. The display is small but very bright and clear even for my dodgy eyes. I use the internal mic on the front panel to simplify things and get good audio reports. The 20W output and 6 metres is a bonus.

Glenn VK3YY.

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34

This from the X6200 groups.io list from N2GOP regarding European sales from Sweden retail outlet:
As of yesterday (June 13th) CE certification has been completed.
NOTICE:

Due to CE certification timing, we decided to wait for the 2nd production batch. Some online dealers outside the EU will already have started selling 1st batch units. We have adjusted our delivery to mid July and all pre-orders will be fulfilled with 2nd batch CE certified units. When buying from Pileup your purchase is covered by EU consumer legislation with a 2-year warranty (non-EU dealers offer shorter warranty).

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Brexit: the gift that keeps on giving.

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If you weren’t there from birth, you don’t even think about worrying about it :sunglasses:

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And the moral of this story is … look after your 817s folks!

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Hi Martin,
Jackson from Radioddity has just posted an article explaining the different appraoch to SDR used in the X6200 compared to the X6100 - this (of course) echoes what you have described.
Exploring the Future of Radio Frequency: An In-Depth Look at RF Direct Sampling

73 Ed.

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I think the Swedish “Xiegu.eu” / “PileUPDX” retailer is taking a Jibe at Radioddity, rather than UK dealers.
Ed.

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Thanks for the clarification of the term.

Thanks for the link for the SDR approach. I guess that they are using some sort of tuneable / selectable input filter (the same as for Tx output?) and undersampling in front of the A/D converter (which, having to deal with a band-limited signal only, can be driven at a lower sampling rate and is hence much cheaper).
Some small nitpicking: the radioddity article talks about “Robust digital filtering is necessary to avoid aliasing when directly sampling the RF spectrum”: Once a signal is digitized, any aliasing (due to A/D conversion) has already happened and cannot be undone anymore. Of course, you can do plenty of errors in the subsequent SW chain …

Now, please, somebody rush out, buy this beast and show us the photos!

73 de Martin / HB9GVW

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