i got the 6 + 3 points for the activation on 21/01/2013 … but
i got 0 + 0 points for the activation on 18/12/2013 …
both of my activations were during winter period, so i think the bonus points should be awarded to every activation in that period, regardless of how often the summit has been activated a year!
i could not find any statement about this issue in the Austrian-ARM. maybe someone can give me an answer!
my personal view is that an activator should get the bonus points for every activation … so if i activate OE/OO-061 5 times during winter i think it would be fair to get the bonus points 5 times!?
I think that you got 0 points on your second activation because both activations were in the same calendar year and you can only be awarded points once. However, you can activate a summit outside the winter bonus period and if you activate it again in the winter bonus period you would then receive the winter bonus points only for the second activation. Well this is my understanding of the rules.
If you activate a summit that qualifies for winter bonus in January and you activate this summit again in December in the same year, you only get the bonus points on the January activation. You only get bonus points for one summit once per calendar year. It is possible to activate a SOTA summit in the summer to get the normal points and then activate the same SOTA summit in December of the same year and get the bonus points only.
You get the activation points once per year.
You get the bonus point once per year.
You can get the bonus points on a different date to when you get activation points.
You personal view that more points should be available per year is noted but the scoring will not be changing.
If you wish to earn points for repeat activations of the same summit during a calendar year, then you must have S2S or 12m contacts (until 31-May-2014).
You personal view that more points should be available per year is
noted but the scoring will not be changing.
thanks for the quick answers!
it was not my intention to ask you to change the scoring system … i just was not able to find an answer to my question in the “GENERAL RULES” or the “AUSTRIAN ARM”.
In reply to OE5REO:
We can probably make that clearer but in the General rules:
3.11.2 Activator scoring precedence
In the event that an Activator activates a Summit more than once during the year, he may claim points for any one Expedition.
i.e. any applicable points may be claimed once whether it be both summit and bonus during the bonus period or summit separately outside of the bonus period and bonus points separately during the bonus period.
A concept that probably can be more clearly explained.
73 Jim G0CQK
Sorry to be pedantic but the interpretation being expounded in this thread is clearly not what Rule 3.11.2 is saying.
To quote the rule in full:
“In the event that an Activator activates a Summit more than once during the year, he may claim points for any one Expedition. If one expedition was during the period that the seasonal bonus was in operation, then he can claim that expedition together with the higher score.”
So all the points gained, summit and bonus, derive from the single activation in the bonus period.
The effect on an Activator’s score remains the same, but this has a couple of implications for the database:
If an Activator has already logged a non-bonus activation of a summit, if he subsequently re-activates it during the bonus period, when this activation is logged the summit points should (subject to my second point) be removed from the non-bonus activation and the summit points plus bonus points be credited to the bonus-period activation.
The rule suggests that in the case of multiple activations of a summit in one year an Activator has the choice of which one accrues the points, which is not implemented as far as I am aware.
But then there is ambiguity whether the word “may” implies “sometimes” or an element of choice.
The reality is that the Database ‘chooses’ which activation(s) to score, always in the activator’s best interests. It does this through a very consistent algorithm that collects the first instance of the summit points in a calendar year, and also the first instance of the winter bonus. Sometimes these are coincidental, sometimes not.
Correct Tom, “may” does imply an element of choice. The activator gets to choose which activation gets the points and the bonus points. The database always tries to score the activation with the maximum points. If you activate it again and the points have been allocated then, of course, you cannot have the points again.
However, if you delete the first activation entered, the remaining activation is rescored. So the activator can decide which of his repeated activations for a summit is scored by
Entering each activation into the database
Downloading each activation log and saving it.
Deleting all activations.
Uploading the saved activation log he wishes to score
Uploading the other activations.
It takes longer to describe than to actually do this.
If you activtate Tinto Hill GM/SS-064 on 1-jan-2013, 1-jun-2013 and 1-dec-2013 and you want the December activation to have the bonus points, the June activation to have the summit points and the January acttivation simply to be online for chasers to see then you would re-enter the activations by uploading the saved logs in the following order.
Upload 1-jun-2013 to get summit points
Upload 1-dec-2013 to get bonus points
Upload 1-jan-2013 to record activation
Everytime you add an activation only that activation is scoreed. Whenever you delete an activation, your entire database record is rescanned to see if any previous logged activation needs rescoring. The same applies to chases etc. In fact there is more code to handle the redestribution of points than there is to score an activtaion to start with.
The result is that you can upload/download/delete activations/chases to your heart’s content safe in the knowledge that the points will be correctly evaluated and applied.
Interesting stuff Andy. I actually didn’t know you could do that. Maybe you told me in the past and I had forgotten, but I’ve learnt something new there today.
I always assumed that the DB looked at what data was there and scored the first activation points for a summit in a year, and the first bonus points. Now I know that this is only the case if they were entered in chronological order.
Highly contrived of course, but sufficient that the rules don’t need rewriting, so result! I assume that having the DB only calculate the newly entered activation as you describe is one of the factors that enables it to run so quickly.
Sorry to be pedantic but the interpretation being expounded in this
thread is clearly not what Rule 3.11.2 is saying.
To quote the rule in full:
“In the event that an Activator activates a Summit more than once
during the year, he may claim points for any one Expedition. If one
expedition was during the period that the seasonal bonus was in
operation, then he can claim that expedition together with the higher
score.”
In more constructive vein, the problem for me is with the second sentence of the rule. The “that expedition” clearly refers to the “one expedition during the period that the seasonal bonus was in operation” rather than the “any one expedition” referred to in the first sentence (which is the presumed intention, based on Andy’s interpretation). A simple tweak could fix that
To me this wording means that although you activated that summit earlier in the year, you may (not “must”) discard the claim for the earlier expedition and transfer the claim to the later expedition to be scored along with the seasonal bonus. This is the interpretation that has been adhered to for many years.
The wording is clearly in need of clarifying, and as I am in the process of examining the General Rules looking for instances of where the wording needs tweaking to clarify the intention I will gratefully add this to the list of tweaks.
Anyone got any others whilst we’re on the subject?
Thanks Brian, good luck with your tweaking! I’ll let you know if my pedantometer detects any more anomalies (although they’re shy little beasts, they only tend to show themselves when circumstances arise that render them contentious…)
