WA2USA and NS0TA log their contacts in the Database…? Just curious.
Steve MW0BBU.
In reply to MW0BBU:
WA2USA always logged in the database as WA2USA/P.
In reply to KG7E:
Just looking down the list of All W activators and can’t seem to see it… Maybe just me.
Steve.
In reply to MW0BBU:
Apologies to WA2USA… it appears that the log is in W9 but doesn’t show up in All W.
Steve MW0BBU.
In reply to KD9KC:
Hi Mike,
I know there are a few that don’t… just wondered why really.
In reply to MW0BBU:
NS0TA gets logged under N7UN in the W7O Association. Likewise WS0TA gets logged by KT5X in the W5N Association. NE1SJ gets logged by N1FJ or KK1W in the W1 Association.
All three calls (NS0TA, WS0TA, NE1SJ) are club calls and may be used by others who will then log qsos under their callsign. NS0TA has been used by Steve/WG0AT who will then log qsos under his callsign, i.e. WG0AT.
There may be other club callsigns with a similar procedure that I am not aware of at this time. The user of these club calls accrues activation and chaser points under their user callsign.
Obviously it is difficult to find the logs for these callsigns. What can we do to improve that?
Guy/N7UN
aka NS0TA
In reply to N7UN:
What can we do to improve that?
Add the information to QRZ.com: "All NSØTA operations by N7UN except WGØAT in 2011 (27JUL, 17AUG, 12SEP) etc, etc. Add info as needed, which isn’t that often.
Obviously, each day with a guest op must be limited to that op. That works well for WSØTA also, but not NE1SJ. That group created their own can of worms…if that’s what life dealt them, time to take the worms and go fishing. They could still limit usage to one op each day with others using their own callsigns that day. QRZ updates would be more frequent, but the many inquiries would be vastly simpler for them to answer.
Elliott, K6EL
.
Always Right
Except When
He’s Wrong
In reply to K6ILM:
In reply to N7UN:
What can we do to improve that?
Add the information to QRZ.com: "All NSØTA operations by N7UN except
WGØAT
Done. But frankly, in the nearly 24 months this call has existed, no one has asked me about SOTA database logging for NS0TA. Not even Mike/KD5KC! I’ve processed, however, about 50 QSL card requests.
Obviously, each day with a guest op must be limited to that op.
I restrict the use of NS0TA to one specific location as I think that is a FCC reg but haven’t researched it yet, i.e. can’t use the same call at multiple locations at the same time. But many operators at that one location may use the call during that operation.
Thanks for the suggestions. Guy/N7UN aka NS0TA
In reply to N7UN:
I see, got you now… you activate with one call sign and log the contact in another not used for the activation… I think that’s how it goes anyway…
Thanks,
Steve.
In reply to KD9KC:
For example, I have 2 contacts with W0RW on Pike’s Peak. He was up
there Pedestrian Mobile with WA3WSJ. So - WA3WSJ uploads his SOTA
logs, W0RW does not. Some folks just don’t upload… It is what it
is.
In Paul’s/W0RW defense, he doesn’t say he’s on a SOTA activation, only /pm. Paul has stated that “he no longer does SOTA” as it’s more “administration” than he wants. Each to his own.
Which raises an important question: Can you claim Activation points for someone who may be on a SOTA peak but is not participating in the SOTA program? I would think not unless you can verify they adhered to all the SOTA rules, i.e. operating in the Activation zone, not operating from their vehicle, walked into the Activation zone, operating under portable power, etc. Pikes Peak is a good example where you can drive up to the summit. How do you know an operator descended and walked into the Activation zone to make it a legal SOTA Activation?
I’m sure this has been discussed before. Your opinions? Guy/N7UN
In reply to N7UN:
I would think not unless you can verify they adhered to all the SOTA rules,
Unless someone asks the station if they’re valid for SOTA, you don’t know. You can claim in ignorance but you would be expected to clean your log up should there be a message that the station wasn’t valid. These messages have been on SOTAwatch before. I’ve looked in the logs and often within minutes of a “sorry XYZ wasn’t valid” message being posted I can see people deleting QSOs out of their log.
We assume that everyone involved isn’t blatently cheating and everyone is being genuine in their claims for QSOs and activations. We don’t need QSLs etc. but we do look in the log when people claim awards. There are things which make MT members go “Hmmmm?”. If you activate and chase enough, odd logs stand out!
Andy
MM0FMF
In reply to N7UN:
How do you know an operator
descended and walked into the Activation zone to make it a legal SOTA
Activation?
Descending and re-ascending into the AZ is not required by the rules. It is a convention followed by many able-bodied Activators to make the activation more sporting, but is not a rule and thus these easy summits become suitable targets for the less able-bodied activators, the handicapped or infirm participants. I would suggest that a pedestrian mobile operating from the top of a SOTA summit is bound to be a good chase.
73
Brian G8ADD
In reply to G8ADD:
Yes, the exceptions for less able-bodied activators are understood. But this example was about drive-ups to the summit peaks (like Pikes Peak but we have many, many SOTA summits that are drive-ups). As you know, the “method of final access to the Summit must be non-motorised”. So if I drive to a top of a SOTA summit, I need to walk down out of the Activation Zone then back into the AZ for the Activation to be legitimate for SOTA. This is my understanding of the “non-motorized rule” and is what we in North America understand the meaning of this rule to be.
Many hams take motorised vehicles to SOTA summits (chairlifts, trams, cog trains, buses, personal cars, etc) and their 2m handheld and make qsos. IMO, these are not valid SOTA activations unless the Activator adheres to the SOTA rules.
Am I misunderstanding the non-motorized rule?
Guy/N7UN
In reply to N7UN:
Hi Guy
Maybe you could help us by saying which rules you are referring to? Which paragraphs?
73 Richard G3CWI
In reply to G3CWI:
Yes, of course. SOTA General Rules: 3.7.1.3 thru 3.7.1.5.
And I’m sure this has been discussed before for Activators. But this is a particular discussion for Chasers claiming points with a non-SOTA rules compliant ham on a SOTA summit, e.g. a ham who drove his vehicle to a SOTA summit and made qsos with a Chaser who then claimed Chaser points.
I’m following up because of Brian’s/G8ADD’s statement:
Descending and re-ascending into the AZ is not required by the rules. It is a convention followed by many able-bodied Activators to make the activation more sporting, but is not a rule…
Guy/N7UN
I need to walk down out of the Activation Zone then back into the AZ for the Activation to be legitimate for SOTA.
Mobile operation is not allowed on a SOTA summit, but walking outside of the activation zone and back in the activation zone has never been in the SOTA general rules.
SOTA general rules can be found here.
Jimmy M0HGY
In reply to N7UN:
A chaser can only claim points for a summit that is being activated effectively according to the rules. That means someone whose final approach was person powered whether they were an intentional SOTA activator or not. Points cannot be claimed for a QSO with what might be described as a casual traveller working from or in any way in contact with a vehicle. Should that casual traveller get out of the vehicle and walk away from it then make a QSO with a chaser using a handheld portable that would be a valid for points for a chaser, even if it is not within the true spirit of SOTA.
My personal perspective although Brian may correct me.
73 Jim G0CQK
In general reply:
There are a number of UK summits where there is convenient parking within the activation area, but access to the summit is nearly impossible (at least legally!) G/DC-005 (Christ Cross) and G/TW-004 (Bishop Wilton Wold) come to mind. I have activated both summits getting as far as practically possible from the car. However, if your concience pricks you about such activations, how about doing pennance by activating a summit where the energy expended is out of all proportion to the points value. In this area, G/WB-006 (Caer Caradoc Hill) would be a good candidate - 2.5 miles and 279 metres of ascent from Church Stretton for 1 point. No doubt there are better candidates elsewhere.
Regards, Dave, G6DTN
In reply to N7UN:
Guy, some SOTA summits are grassy or wooded plateaus with roads over them and car parks. We have some summits in this country where the AZ can literally be measured in square miles. It would be somewhat ridiculous to expect someone to park his car and then hike for a mile or two to exit the AZ and then hike a mile or two back to activate and then get back in the car and move on. Where parking coincides with the summit or is in the AZ the rules require you to leave the vicinity of the car and carry your equipment to the operating position. I understand that in Europe there are some summits where the only part of the summit open to the public is the car park, so the operating position must also be in the car park - but away from the activators car. No distance is specified, no requirement to leave and re-enter the AZ is specified, simply because of the great variety of circumstances that might be encountered.
Bearing the above in mind, “a ham who drove his vehicle to a SOTA summit and made qsos with a Chaser” will have made a valid SOTA contact as long as he has left the car, and his rig, antenna and power source are not contained in or installed on the car. In the example you quoted, involving hams signing pedestrian mobile, it is a fair assumption that they are operating in accordance with the SOTA rules, you don’t go walkabout with an umbilical cord to the car! However, some hams in this country sign /M if walking about with an HT, which is confusing…
In the case that you are most concerned about, non-SOTA rules compliant from a car in the AZ, it comes down to whether the operator in the car is claiming to be SOTA compliant - if, for instance an activator quotes the SOTA reference then it is reasonable for the chaser to assume that it is a SOTA activation unless told otherwise. However we had a problem a few years ago with a ham regularly driving to the car park on a GW summit and claiming to be activating even though he never got out of the seat of his car. On the one occasion that I activated that summit I came back to the car park to find him parked next to me and happily working chasers. The chaser can, of course, enquire if the activation is in accordance with the rules but in this case the guy would have happily said “yes”!
So in the end we have to trust. If somebody is caught breaking the rules we can AND HAVE applied sanctions, but we could not apply sanctions if it is a convention that is broken. The rules do not require you to enter the AZ on foot, they don’t require you to exit and re-enter the AZ if parked within the AZ, they merely require you to operate remote from your car. We trust people to do this just as we trust them to be operating within the AZ or to be on the summit that they claim to be on, and not sitting in the garden of a pub down the road!
Your convention of leaving and re-entering the AZ is IMHO quite admirable, but it is not a rule.
73
Brian G8ADD
In reply to G8ADD:
just as we
trust them to be operating within the AZ or to be on the summit that
they claim to be on, and not sitting in the garden of a pub down the
road!
If you are activating Crowborough you can sit in the garden of the pub down the road and activate as the pub is in the AZ. I believe that some early activators did just that.
73 Richard G3CWI