Wardens on Pen Y Fan

Just as well there are several Acts of Parliament that allowed NT Byelaws into existence.

That is surprising, however, I would doubt they would let volunteers act under any bylaw, considerable risk of getting it wrong and the liable to legsl recourse.

The National Trust Acts refer to “an Officer of the Trust”. Whether or not they are a volunteer is neither here nor there for legal purposes. The law empowers the NT to create byelaws and to nominate people to uphold them. The “considerable risk” here is someone playing the barrack-room lawyer and creating an issue about amateur radio with a body whose land many of us use without incident in 99.9% of cases.


More repetitiveness I’m afraid:

Don’t be argumentative.
Do be courteous, friendly and ultimately compliant.

Most of the time you’ll be left to carry on, and importantly, you don’t compromise anything for the rest of us!

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I’ve been having a look into this a bit further, the Bylaws that the National Trust have are pretty much standard and in keeping with more public bodies such as National Park Authorities, in fact, a quick search and I have found out that Shining Tor (G/SP-004 ) is covered by the similar restrictions (as is Kinder Scout) although they belong to the Peak District National Park Authority and are applicable to all CROW land. The Lake District NP also has the same although they are vague about the areas their bylaws cover, It is rare for National Park Authorities to actually own land.

As regards to Wildlife Trusts, we have a couple of reserves nearby which are not open to the public but I know someone who does Flora and Fauna Activations and joined the local Wildlife Trust so he could access the land which the trust was happy about.

I also think you have to understand the current climate where for want of better words the ‘riff-raff’ or ‘Chav’ element of society who have had trips to Benidorm and Magaluf curtailed in recent years due to COVID have been rampaging across the British countryside causing problems whether it is what has been going on Snowdon to places like Foremark Reservoir (owned by Severn Trent) where things have got out of hand, because of the numbers of people visiting, who have a couldn’t care less attitude and I will do as I like, whether that is ignoring ‘No BBQ signs’ to setting up campfires, swimming and defecating in or next to what is a drinking water supply for the local population, add to this drunken violence has broken out, and Severn Trent rangers have had to call the Police who had to mount a major operation over several weekends when Severn Trent closed public access.

End result is now that access is restricted, the reservoir is now fenced off to stop people from swimming and the police have to mount regular patrols. These problems are being replicated around Ladybower where there have been several wildfires caused by people with disposable BBQs.

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Surely there has to be a simple answer to this, in general we seem to be a responsible group of people I know up here in Scotland we have a much more relaxed system of laws regarding where you can go and what you can do. There are instances when we cannot access areas for perfectly good reasons I.E. the stalking season or if estates are burning heather all it takes is a simple request. Surely all that is required is for the national trust to provide a central point whereby an appointed person who understands our hobby can make an informed decision and grant or deny permission via an email which can be carried on a mobile phone and produced to said wardens.

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There was discussion and it happened back when SOTA was created 20 years ago. NT is aware and happy because activations are transient happenings that are in most cases over in under an hour.

What you see are some well meaning NT volunteers who are erroneously applying NT rules.

As my fellow MT member Tom M1EYP says:

Don’t be argumentative.
Do be courteous, friendly and ultimately compliant.

You can discuss what your plans are with a warden if approached and they may be happy with your plans. But you are only in a position to discuss your plans, not SOTA in general. If the warden asks you to leave, then you pack up and leave. Making a stand for what you believe are your rights and creating conflict with wardens is likely to get ALL SOTA activity banned for ALL NT land for ALL times.

There have been, I guess, thousands of activations on NT land where there has been no contact with wardens, contact with wardens who have been happy with what is happening. I think, there have been about 10 cases where wardens on 2 specific summits have asked people to leave. 10 out of thousands is not a problem that needs fixing.


I don’t think the NT will wish to appoint someone to scrutinise the dozens of applications they would get from amateurs to operate on NT land every week. Once you start looking for people to permit your operation you also have to abide by it when they refuse in advance. The NT byelaws give their people an ability to close you down if they wish to. In 99.9% of cases, there is no issue.

In this case, someone went to a high profile NT property, and the warden intervened. Someone else has linked in a report from Stiperstones which seems to have passed on without further incident, there was the case at Butser Hill a couple of years ago which AFAIK has not been repeated either. This is not a big issue if we don’t make it one.


Slightly off topic, but just seen this message:

I’ve never noticed that before. Not sure I can wait an hour for the next instalment :wink:


If only you had said this on the 28th of August then this thread wouldn’t be so long, but things change, people come and go, and you can’t rely on what was said 20 years ago if there is a problem with access is it not better to nip it in the bud and deal with it, as it will be a local issue and down to a few individuals, than saying there isn’t a problem only for it to fester and get worse?

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We’re saying there isn’t a problem - because there isn’t a problem. See my posts above, and those of @MM0FMF and @M0TTQ

I have done of the order of 3000 activations on NT land. I have been approached by wardens on between 5 and 10 occasions. In every case, they departed happy and I was allowed to continue and complete my activation. So stick with my guidance and all will be fine.

Learn the following sentence:

“I’ll be here about another twenty minutes if that’s OK. But obviously, if you tell me to stop and pack up immediately, I will respect that”.

It has a 100% success record of me being able to continue activating.

Just be nice, and a little bit humble, and you’ll get the same back. It’s only a problem if we make it one.