In reply to M0LEP:
Technically, we could use CW in the bit above 7.050, as it’s “All modes”,
but it tends to get “remarked upon” if we do…
Only by those who lack clue and understanding as to what “all modes” means.
Andy
MM0FMF
In reply to KD9KC:
In the UK, following the band plan is not mandatory. Of course if we all did our own thing we’d have less contacts all round. So sticking compatible stuff together makes good sense.
Even if you stick to the absolute letter of the band plans in the UK, CW is allowed everywhere on the HF bands. The only place you shouldn’t be transmitting is the IBP sections and in the beacon sections if you’re not a beacon.
SSB on 30m is valid in parts of VK and Africa ISTR.
60m is odd. In the UK it’s not on general release, you need the top licence type and have to apply for permission to use it. So occupancy is lower than 40m.
The overall problem is that we find we all want to be on the choice piece of spectrum at the same time and it’s often not big enough.
Andy
MM0FMF
In reply to M1EYP:
Maybe we are looking at the wrong statistics.
I did my first activation in November 2012, since then I have activated 13 different summits 12 of which I either started and stayed on CW until I qualified or, used only CW.
So, using the data from the SOTA database for these activations, I have worked out that there is an average of 11 minutes between my CW qso’s and I have spent an average of 55 minutes on each summit. These figures do not include the time spent to get my first contact on the summit. When you compare this with SSB activations, I suspect you will find the weekend activator needs only 10 minutes to get their four.
The DX versus Local contacts has been recently debated on the reflector, I am no propagation expert but I believe it will always be difficult for us to work DX from VK summits, generally our activations are between 2300 and 0500, this I believe is both a lousy time for DX hams to be awake or simply there is no propagation.
However we have been trying the higher bands, with the increased number of chasers in VK and to give all VK call areas a go the use of 10 MHz and up is a must.
Another problem with DX is the antenna choice, most of us use a dipole or similar antenna and its radiation angle is a bit high for DX operation, but given the low number of CW chasers I need to be confident of getting contacts, rather than carrying a second or different antenna on the off chance of working a DX station.
Regardless on my to-do list is a summit sleep over with a view to working DX, I will take a more suitable antenna, and also make my intentions clear when I post the Alert that I will be on the summit overnight and looking for DX stations.
To look at the Stat’s a different way, has anyone compared the SSB/CW numbers in the contest and the like for VK operators and other call areas, maybe we are just not big on CW here.
73
Warren
vk3byd
In reply to VK3BYD:
Warren. Thanks for the well thought-out reply.
For us, it isn’t just the lack of CW, but also the choice of bands. I can fully appreciate that you can qualify a summit in under 10 minutes using 40m. And you should do that straight away. Once you are assured of the valid activation, and things have quieted down on 40m, perhaps other bands might be explored.
The 2300 to 0500 UTC time frame works out well for most of the North American Continent. Speaking personally, this is 4pm to 10pm (1600 to 2200) mountain standard time. I am often on the air during these hours. As a better example, on Tuesday evenings I usually go out Pedestrian Mobile on 10m (for a local net). Please see my profile on QRZ.com for a photo of /pm. I have easily worked KH6 and JAs while walking down the street. A few weeks ago I heard a VK, but I could not break the pile-up as a 10-watt /pm station. This was not the first and/or only VK heard, just the latest.
I have actually had better luck on 12m in our evenings, working many JAs and other far pacific locations. This sits well with the 12m challenge. And sometimes 15m is working very well too.
Several months ago many of us in the Western USA were desperate for a VK contact to get our 3rd continent for Mountain Hunter. Since KH6 became a SOTA entity, that isn’t so important anymore. But many of us would still enjoy a summit contact with a VK. I hope we can pull it off someday.
Thanks again for the reply.
Vy73 - Mike - KD5KC.
El Paso, Texas - DM61rt.
W5-SOTA Association Manager.
In reply to VK5CZ:
well not all scared of the 'boogy man" but defiantly of falling off a hill in the dark ! Allways try to be back at car by dark. The roos only annoy you in the morning on early starts by leaping in frount of your car whilst driving up.
Allen
VK3HRA
In reply to KD5KC:
Hi Mike,
I’ve spent a lot of time looking for activators in the Northern hemisphere from my home QTH. I can hear chasers often but activators aren’t making the grade. I know a dozen or so have been worked by other VKs but that only goes to show the fickleness of propagation at present and perhaps my suburban noise level is another factor. It’s not the activators choice of mode or frequency that is the problem.
When activating I have nearly always spent some time on 10, 14, 18, 21 24 and 28 MHz. Only one QSO outside VK, so not a lot of incentive to keep doing it.
40 m SSB is the most likely mode to get an activation, although I will be trying something like JT65HF higher up in the next 6 months.
If a VK activator or two starts getting numerous CW contacts or some juicy OS summits on CW you will see an upsurge in that mode here. Presently it’s a struggle. Until then, except those looking for a real challenge, it’s back to the microphone.
73
Ron
VK3AFW/AX3AFW
In reply to AX3AFW:
Right now VK3BQ is all over the bands. 40m, no joy. 20m, no joy. Now 12m, and just no luck! But I feel certain I am not the only one chasing him fruitlessly tonight.
I hope he hears of this. If he had an E-mail address posted on QRZ, I would drop him a Thank You for trying.
Vy73 - Mike - KD5KC.
In reply to M1EYP:
The other question of course is why are there so many CW activations in EU / NA given that CW usage proportionally is less than phone modes in the hobby in general?
Gone are the days when there is a great difference in weight in a CW vs an SSB rig. The jury is out on whether given good conditions CW QRP gets further than SSB QRP in the mess of high powered stations that are on when the band is open.
I think the truth is that the number of CW activations are reflected in the proportion of users in the hobby in VK that use CW vs SSB.
There probably should be a few more activators using CW to get a correct balance but personally I don’t operate CW and so wont be activating in the more uncomfortable situation of an open hilltop with a mode I don’t know.
We are getting more and more people becoming interested in SOTA in VK as we get more associations up and running, so you may well see more CW operations in the future.
But then there’s still the vast distances and clock difference to other SOTA countries to consider.
73 Ed VK2JI / G8GLM.
In reply to KD5KC:
Band conditions down here in Australia have been very bad for the last few days - irrespective of mode, I am simply not hearing stations on 40/20 or 12m from locations that I would normally be able to hear OK.
Lets hope conditions improve again soon.
73 Ed VK2JI.
In reply to KD5KC:
Mike,
OK on the time zone, this raised another question, since you guys are behind UTC an activation on our Saturday would be your Friday which may also make it harder for US hams to be on air. Bad news is my next one will be another Saturday.
Looking at VOACAP it suggest the best time for 20mx is either 09 or 14 UTC, at which point most VK activators will have left the summit.
These conversations raise the awareness of the issues of working DX from SOTA activations in VK, and with this improved education we have a better chance of making it work. I genuinely look forward to the day when I can write a non VK callsign in my SOTA log.
Warren.
vk3byd
In reply to KD5KC:
has my email address. :). And some pics of my travels , will get todays summit up later tonight, ** todays trip is online now.
was a public holiday in VK3 / melbourne australia today, the melbourne cup (famous horse race).
Band conditions over the last 3-4 days have been terrible. That pesky sun and all 
On my QRP rig. New Zealand is as exotic as I’ve gone so far. So. Without resorting to CW. Maybe overseas will be a Challenge. My end fed random bit of wire (vertical) does not help for the more exotic locations either. Need a better field antenna.
As for morse. My radio keyer is programmed to ask “do you have a microphone”
I do have an iPad-ft817 cable coming. http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/10671
So can try psk31 into the future
But I’ll keep trying :). Thanks. Andrew.
In reply to VK2JI:
But then there’s still the vast distances and clock difference to other SOTA countries to consider.
Indeed. Of course there’s always the possibility of encouraging SOTA chasing from coutries without their own SOTA associations yet. Are there many active SOTA chasers in south-east Asia, sub-Saharan Africa, or New Zealand, for instance?
In reply to VK3BQ:
As for morse. My radio keyer is programmed to ask “do you have a microphone”
Morse isn’t for everyone. The main reason I’m still working at it is that without it my SOTA chasing’s limited to Europe and maybe (on a very good day) the nearest North American summits. Local noise levels and available antennas see to it that QRP(-ish) SSB from any further afield doesn’t usually stand a chance.
Morse has, however, saved at least two recent activations of mine from being not-quite-activations…
73, Rick M0LEP
In reply to N5XL: Peter, VK3ZPF knows no Morse Code 
The VK preference for 40 m SSB is, in my opinion, due to previous portable awards, in particular the Keith Roget Memorial National Parks Award, where HF was needed to make contacts to qualify the National Parks. This may be due to the distances involved and our population being concentrated in a few big cities on the east coast. Trying to make VHF contacts from most Victorian National Parks would be an exercise in futility.
The transition from KRMNPA to SOTA was an easy move. Staying on HF was even easier.
I obtained a ‘limited licence’ back in the mid 1980s with no need for Morse Code and had access to 10m and above. In 2004 ‘Limited licensees’ were granted access to HF. A few years later ‘Limited licensees’ became ‘Advanced licensees’ and the rest is history.
I have little desire to chase DX contacts from SOTA summits but I am happy to work any station that I can.
As other VKs have mentioned qualifying a summit on 40m SSB can be done quickly.
10 minutes from first to fourth QSO is common, under 5 minutes is not unusual. Under 3 minutes yesterday afternoon surprised even me.
The 12 metre challenge has seen a few activators try 24 MHz but it offers little reward most of the time. For DX it is a long haul over here, for VK amateurs 24 MHz is only available to Advanced licence holders and very few have antennas for it.
As SOTA matures ‘down under’ we may see a change in behaviour but I don’t think CW will ever be big again here.
In reply to M0LEP:
Rick,
The question should be why do the northern hemisphere hams use CW so much. After all we were not born with paddles, well not that I have noticed. Speech is a natural mode, CW is a learned behavior.
Theory A
Is it possible North America and European stations have a sweet tooth? The pile of Altoids tins in the shack gives rise to an urge to do something with them. All you can fit in is a sub 1 W CW transceiver. What can you do with 700 mW? Go walk up a hill and try for some DX. The Aussie beer can on the other hand can hold a 5 W SSB rig, no worries mate. Pack the antenna in another, battery in a third, add 3 full ones to make a six pack and off to the peak. Of course we bring back the empties.
Theory B.
The bands over there are so crowded that QRP phone gets steamrolled but QRP CW has a chance of being heard. In VK the QRM is low except for contest and special activity days.
Theory C.
The nights are getting longer over there and someone just has to fill in the time by starting a debate.
BTW, If we are down under, why do we get more sunshine? Could it be that like electricity (positive charge carriers are not the dominant mechanism in conductors) a mistake was made in allocating up and down?
73
Ron
VK3AFW
In reply to AX3AFW:
The question should be why do the northern hemisphere hams use CW so much.
Heh.
All you can fit in is a sub 1 W CW transceiver.
There are certainly quite a few summits in parts of Europe that aren’t exactly easy to lug a 50 watt transceiver and suitable batteries up. An Altoids tin transceiver’s much easier to carry… 
The Aussie beer can on the other hand can hold a 5 W SSB rig, no worries mate.
The bands over there are so crowded that QRP phone gets steamrolled but QRP CW has a chance of being heard.
Yeah, there’s definitely something in that one.
The nights are getting longer over there and someone just has to fill in the time by starting a debate.
…and that. It’s a miserable damp gloomy grey morning here. Seriously considering going back to bed, myself!
a mistake was made in allocating up and down?
…or just that, like the birds, the good weather’s flown south for winter? There’s a lot to be said for flying south this time of year, I reckon.
73, Rick M0LEP (sometimes with 5Z4/ or /VK added)
In reply to AX3AFW:
BTW, If we are down under, why do we get more sunshine? Could it be
that like electricity (positive charge carriers are not the dominant
mechanism in conductors) a mistake was made in allocating up and down?
Looking at the position of the equator, Ron, I’d say you were more sideways!
I reckon this bleeping mode is like yatching, horse riding, civil war enacting, restoring and running old mills or collecting boat anchors, a back to the past complex (nostalgia ain’t what it used to be!) - but if I suffered the same way no doubt I would see it differently!
73
Brian G8ADD
In reply to AX3AFW:
Theory A
Is it possible North America and European stations have a sweet tooth?
The pile of Altoids tins in the shack gives rise to an urge to do
something with them. All you can fit in is a sub 1 W CW transceiver.
Nonsense, My ATS-3B and MTR rigs both fit in an Altoids tin and give 5W from a 12v supply.
So, one Altoids tin for the rig, one for the ATU and one full of mints
Leaves plenty of space for a six-pack of beer, or in Andy’s case 6 miniatures of single malt
Colin G8TMV
In reply to G8TMV:
or in Andy’s case 6 miniatures of single malt
Can I point out that (at least in my local ASDA) a 70cl bottle of 12yr Glenlivet is £34. However, a 35cl bottle of the same is only £12. Or 2x 35cl bottles for £24. A saving of £10 over a full size bottle. This means that if you buy 6x 35cls bottles, you can spend the £30 saved on a full sized bottle of something else!
Andy
MM0FMF
In reply to G8TMV:
Leaves plenty of space for a six-pack of beer, or in Andy’s case 6
miniatures of single malt
Miniatures?
73
Brian G8ADD
In reply to G8ADD:
A 35cl bottle is a miniature.
Andy
MM0FMF