SOTA vs Contests

Old Reflector
1

Folks,

I am a raw beginner on SOTA things, as a chaser and an activator, but have really enjoyed myself with the scheme so far. I use various Elecraft rigs, and am solely a CW op, by choice.

However, it does seem that as SOTA gets more popular it might be losing a little of its shine for me, and perhaps others. Where only a little while ago it was possible to ‘help’ an activator by contacting them, now it is often not even possible to make that contact. There are unbreakable pile ups on some activations, and much of the proceedings seems to be done at high speed, which excludes many from taking part. I admire those who can read CW in their head, and send at 35wpm, but there are those of us that can’t do those things, and some, like me, who will never reach such dizzy heights.

To cap it all, a friend went out portable last week, and was calling CQ. He got an answer - “SOTA?”, when he sent ‘no’ the guy at the other end b******* off without a report, or any other response. At least he was ‘out there’, which the ‘chaser’ probably was not!

Now if SOTA is going to become just a way of ‘contesting’ on the WARC bands, it will spoil it for many. I have stood on a hill freezing in the wind, and know what a pain it can be to have long winded and slow stations telling you their life history, but please, the idea was to get people out with their radios into the fresh air… or have I misunderstood it all?

Les g0nmd

2

In reply to G0NMD:

What changes would you make to the rules to make SOTA be what you want?

How will you enforce them?

Andy
MM0FMF

3

In reply to G0NMD:
Les,
Enjoy your version of SOTA… getting out there and doing your own thing will bring you the pleasure, as for 35wpm, you know not everyone goes like Billy Whizz on the key, work the ones you can. In SOTA as in life you will always have the “One” take them in your stride and forget them… enjoy SOTA as I do activating and chasing… No worries.

Steve MW0BBU.

4

Hi Les,
even if you may not understand the full content of too fast CW-exchanges you will get the different parts of the contact and so will get the moment when it is time to call. I´m quite sure that the majority of activators will immediately reduce their speed for a caller with less wpm to make the contact reliably. Please try it. Even if they may still be faster than you, it should allow you to understand at least your call when the activator comes back to you.
The speed difference may not be that much as I think that not many activators go at more than 25wpm. I admit that I also start with 23/24wpm on my few activations to work the initial pileup so fast that it does not grow unmanageable. But a qrs-caller will be answered with less wpm.
And: Besides Rufz and Morserunner for a change real contests are an ufb possibility to reduce initial anxiety to call real highspeed stations - after two or three hours in a contest your hearing speed has increased significantly.
Best 73, Chris DL8MBS

5

In reply to MM0FMF:
Andy,

I don’t want to enforce anything, though the pile-ups and QRQ CW can become the means which “force” some to be excluded, and others to be the “exclusive SOTA people”.

The reason why SOTA was an atraction to me was that, 1. it helped to get me outdoors, and 2. itcould be clear of the contesters that so often bully the rest on the main bands.

Talking to others, it would seem these are not uncommon feelings. Surely there is room in SOTA for the qucik and the slow, (though perhaps not the dead), just as there is room for the SSB, FM and data modes (AM too…)

Talking to another activator today, he expressed the feeling that SOTA could become like a contest, where the high-powered chaser is the one who rules the roost, for chasers and activators alike.

YMMV of course… What do others feel?
Les

6

In reply to DL8MBS:

after two or three hours in a contest your hearing speed has increased significantly.

…or your ears are ringing. (Just the thought of listening to two or three hours of Morse at a stretch makes my ears ring…)

The faster the QSOs are going past, the less likely I am to be able to pick out the callsign and summit reference, and I like to be sure that it is actually the activator on the appropriate summit I’m hearing (and not some DX aligator who’s moved in on the frequency) before I call in. Often (especially with faster ops) that means I won’t call unless I’ve heard the activator calling CQ quite a few times…

If the Morse is much above about 25wpm, I probably won’t hang around. Sure, I miss almost all of the activators I try listening for, but now and again I catch one.

7

In reply to M0LEP:
Just wait until the pile up has gone…Most activators make it plain that they are winding up … by then you should have the ref and activators call… if not ask for the ref… QRS… I am sure you will get as requested… well you would off me anyway…Bobs yer Uncle…

Steve MW0BBU.

8

In reply to G0NMD:

Hi Les,

I’m well aware that you as the activator, is the sole arbiter of the mode chosen to operate. OTOH, if CW becomes an unreadable scrum, why not combine the activation with a little ssb. Trust me, you’ll work just as many DXCC’s working ssb, that you will working CW.

I’ve worked plenty of big ssb pile-ups over the years and with the possibly one or two activations, experienced very few problems.

73 Mike
2E0YYY

9

In reply to 2E0YYY:

Hi chaps - finally convinced myself that it was worth going out and buying some HF gear! I’ve picked up a really nice IC-703 for a few quid. I plan to do some activations using it over the coming months - although so far I’ve just listened at home using a long wire.

Being (I like to think!) a hardened VHF activator, I’ve always looked upon SOTA as a bit of a “gentleman’s game”. Nice stroll up a mountain, leisurely speak to a few people on the radio, talk a little about the weather, about SOTA in general and ask after the health and wellness of the usual “SOTA folk” as and when they appear on my frequency.

The usual crowd will tell you I press on with the activation when the weather and conditions aren’t so good, but typically I conduct a leisurely affair in most of my ‘fair weather’ activations. I might pick the pace up near the end - to make certain everyone gets their chaser points.

HOWEVER, entering the world of HF/SOTA has completely blown my perception of it out of the water. I hear ‘QRZ?’ and a million (YES ONE WHOLE MILLION!!!) callsigns being shouted at the activator repeatedly. This practise of shouting callsigns then appears to continue, regardless of whether the activator is trying to listen to an aforementioned chaser or even talking themselves! I was shocked the first time I heard this - but I’ve heard it a few times now. It makes no difference if the activator attempts to reduce the barrage of calls by asking something like “EA stations only please, EA ONLY”.

This seems far more cut-throat and ‘competitive’ than any of the contests I’ve listened to recently.

I keep reading about using radio skill and experience to make your presence known to another operator even when operating in a pile-up and/or using QRP. But unfortunately my, albeit small, experience so far of HF is exposing the opposite - frankly ‘thuggery’…

Rob G7LAS/P

10

In reply to G7LAS:

Competition is part of the human condition. SOTA is about setting and achieving your own goals, in this respect it is non-competitive, but to achieve your goal you are striving against yourself, the other operators, conditions and so on. This in reality is indistinguishable from competition. Some of your non-competitors will be more pushy than others, some of them will be more competant than others, some will be hindered by equipment problems, local noise and the like. Alligator operators (all mouth and no ears) are a particular problem on HF, though they can be encountered on VHF, and while I do send warnings to the worst offenders that are reported to me, these types cannot be eliminated no matter how fervently we might wish for them to get their come-uppance. You just have to add them to the list of difficulties that contribute to your sense of achievement when you succeed in an activation or chase.

The truth of the matter is that SOTA is a victim of its own success. It has attracted quite a few of the people with the mentality that can lead them to call a DX-pedition for hours on end, but they know that with a SOTA activation the station will not be there for long, perhaps they have just an hour or so to punch their call through the wall of QRM before the opportunity is gone. This makes them try a bit harder, behave in a more unruly manner, lose their temper. This is infectious. So yes, we see “thuggery” every day, particularly when something juicy like the recent CT3 activations occur, but if you think your goals are worthwhile then you just grit your teeth and persevere.

73

Brian G8ADD

11

In reply to G0NMD:
I achieved Goatdom and Slothdom on VHF (fm and ssb) as M0DFA.

Resurrecting my old call G6DTN I achieved Slothdom on hf ssb. Chasers can be ill-disciplined, but as activator you have the option to pull the plug if it gets (as far as you are concerned) out of hand - cynicaly, you only need 4 QSOs. There are other topics on the reflector on the subject of dealing with persistently ill-disciplined chasers. It is less frantic during the week, if you are fortunate enough to be able to do mid-week activations which also avoids the contests.

I have re-started (for the umpteenth time) learning cw, this time with the G4FON tutor. I can only send reliably at 15wpm at best, on-air I can receive (just) at that speed for a normal QSO. I havn’t mastered reading cw in my head - it all (some?) gets written down, BUT I have recently achieved Slothdom on hf cw, by being selective as to who I chase. You’ll get to know who will QRS for you, especially if you are offering S2S, and you’ll also get to be able to pick out the info you need from faster ops. OK, you’ll miss some but your hit-rate will improve.

At the moment I wouldn’t risk a cw activation - I just don’t know how the ops who do sort out the calls.

Hope my ramblings are of some help. Keep at it, enjoy, and if it all gets to much, mountain views are second to none, or hit the flask (See Tom’s (M1EYP) contributions for recommendations!)

Regards, Dave, G6DTN

12

It is not just SOTA where VHF/UHF and HF differ. Anything remotely rare on HF results in the frequency being turned into a free for all, a zoo. Ops are far far more gentleman like on VHF/UHF. However, the activator is king. Perhaps have a break when things turn crazy, possibly QSY to another band. WX permitting of course, or just pack up & descend. Unfortunately every basket has a bad apple or two. And it’s those that spoil it for others. Luckily it is not all bad and most chasers are pretty good.

73 Chris M0RSF

13

When on CW, even if there is a massive pile-up of many stations waiting, if someone calls me a slower speed than I’m working at, I will always try my best to reply to them at that speed and make a QSO. It doesn’t matter to me if it takes a little extra time, that’s the way it should be.

The tradition on CW is that no matter what speed you called CQ or worked the last station at, if someone calls you at a slower speed you should reply to them at that slower speed. We should all remember what it was like when we were starting out on CW and help others to build their confidence and progress.

If the pile up is getting too rowdy and sending PSE QRX ONLY G4? or such like doesn’t work, I’ve found that simply sitting back and sending nothing for a while soon has them all ears again! If it’s really too much, why not QSY to a less-used band and put out a call there. If you really want some peace, try 2m SSB or even better 70cms.

Most of all, do what you enjoy.

73 - Ian.

14

In reply to MW0BBU:

Just wait until the pile up has gone.

Sometimes I check back later, and sometimes I happen to be listening when the pile-up ends. It’s often a matter of luck, guessing when a pile-up might be winding down, and so on. There’ve been occasions when I caught “NW QRT” before I caught the callsign. These days I’m a relaxed chaser (mostly). If I miss nineteen out of twenty, I’m not too bothered. That said, I’m aiming for an HF CW Shack Sloth to go with the HF SSB one…

73, Rick M0LEP

15

In reply to G0NMD:

Hi Les,

Whilst QRQ CW can be off-putting, the number of activators that work in excess of 35WPM can be counted on one hand. Even then, you can guarantee that the vast majority of chasers will be calling at a much more reasonable speed.

I do not purport to be a good CW operator, but I have certainly improved over the past few years after virtually forgetting, & having to re-learn Morse after a few years away from the radio.

There will always be the “big guns” who work all the rare DX & rare summits, but there are things you can do to improve your chances, if like me, you have a fairly modest station.

Most importantly, & something that many stations find hard to do, is listen. A personal bug-bear of mine is chasers transmitting over the activator. This could be while he/she is exchanging details with another station, giving the summit reference or even during a summit to summit. Being able to hear the activator is a vital part of being able to work an activator, & it is quite clear to me at times that some stations are not hearing the activator at all.

After listening, timing your call correctly can help a lot. This does not mean “tail-ending” or calling over a QSO in progress, but simply listening for the activator to call QRZ or however they open the frequency for further calls. Of course, when everybody calls at the right time, if they have all netted precisely onto the activators frequency it makes it very difficult for the activator to pull more than perhaps a partial call out of the pile-up. A simple way to make things easier for the activator & also improve the chance that your call will be heard is to call a few tens of Hertz away from the main pile-up. If you listen to SOTA pile-ups you will hear many experienced chasers doing this, & it is effective. Of course, you should also only send your call once.

As far as speed goes, call at whatever speed you are comfortable with, most activators will either QRS for you, or insert bigger gaps between letters in order to work you. Very few would not respond to a request for a repeat or to QRS. Other posters have already covered waiting until later in the activation, but there is always finding the activator first, before they are spotted. This is by far my favourite method of chasing but it does require a good measure of luck, especially now with RBN generated spots. There is something quite satisfying about answering an activators first CQ call, having a nice relaxed QSO then listening as the pile-up ensues following the appearance of the RBN spot.

Whatever you decide, I do hope you keep up the CW, I have been through several speed barriers to get to were I am now, & it can be very frustrating when everyone seems to be going just that bit too fast for you, but stick with it & your speed will increase & you will hopefully find the faster SOTA pile-ups more of an enjoyable challenge rather than something to make you switch off.

If you ever hear me using CW on one of my extremely rare activations please feel free to call me at whatever speed you are comfortable with :slight_smile:

Thanks & best 73,

Mark G0VOF

16

In reply to G0NMD:

I have observed the same things Les. Working SOTA as an activator or chaser has always been reasonably competitive but in the last year or so the number of people participating seems to have risen sharply. Great! OF course there are good and not so good operators and there are ways of making the most of any situation as many other replies have pointed out.

My only new comment on this theme is the questions of whether spotting has made it too easy to find activators? The pile ups start very rapidly after a spot is made - it seems to me that many stations monitor SOTAWATCH and jump in as soon as a spot is made. I don’t see a problem in that - they are using the resources available to best effect. But would it be more fun to have to hunt for the activators by tuning around??

Robin, G4GIY

17

I have wrote recently in another topic about education on ssb and cw pile-ups, having found always worse problems on ssb ones than cw.
But as you noted, people calling without being able to listen the activatorseems to become a more and more common problem. And I cannot understand it. How would you QSO if you cannot hear him?
BTOH, adjusting speed to match slower operator can be a problem while using f.i. the 817 internal keyer, as you must make a lot of buttoning to adjust. The only remedy is to mantain speed while making spaces between leters wider, as it’s already said.
Anyway, I prefer 1*10e24 times slow and/or novice cw operators than the big crocodiles that -at least me- always found on the ssb pile-ups. I mean, slow operators are learning, the crocodiles will never do!

73 es hpe cu on sota soon

Mikel

18

In reply to EA2CW:

I mean, slow operators are learning, the crocodiles will never do!

Very good point!

73

Brian G8ADD

19

In reply to G7LAS:
Hi Rod,

Even down here in Oz we get pile-ups (in my case SSB not CW but I’m hoping my comments are still relevant irrespective of mode).

I draw a comparison between a SOTA pile-up from the activator side to when operating a DXPedition HF station (which I have had the honor to do once). The activator needs to take control of the pile-up - if he (or she) can’t hear the call sign because of the number calling, then he/she must thin them down by requesting only certain groups to call. This can be a series of groups such as “only S2S” stations, “only QRP stations”, “only portable or mobile stations”, and then go on to the remainder - which you may wish to split by country (or in our case down here, as Australia is a continent, by state). The VERY IMPORTANT point is that the activator needs to stick to his groupings and NOT respond to a “queue jumper”, those stations learn quickly that they have to wait their turn. As always keep going until you have worked all stations (as long as it’s safe to do so and you don’t have to descend the summit), in that way on future activations the chasers know that you will get to them if they wait their turn, but you wont work them if they butt-in.

Interestingly down here, what has started lately is chasers waiting until another chaser has sent their call and then add … and “their call”… followed by the next one, so the activator gets a list of callers and can go through them in order. This only works when the chasers can hear each other of course, but it’s a rather civilised approach and echoes (in my opinion) the generally gentlemanly nature of SOTA - long may it remain so.

73 Ed VK2JI

20

In reply to G0NMD:

I have observed the same things Les. Working SOTA as an activator or chaser has always been reasonably competitive but in the last year or so the number of people participating seems to have risen sharply. Great! OF course there are good and not so good operators and there are ways of making the most of any situation as many other replies have pointed out.

My only new comment on this theme is the questions of whether spotting has made it too easy to find activators? The pile ups start very rapidly after a spot is made - it seems to me that many stations monitor SOTAWATCH and jump in as soon as a spot is made. I don’t see a problem in that - they are using the resources available to best effect. But would it be more fun to have to hunt for the activators by tuning around??

Robin, G4GIY