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SOTA/GMA Debate

In reply to GW0DSP:

It is the season of good will, let’s all enjoy it, in peace and
harmony.

Yes Mike, thank you , so it will be my last words on this subject:

GMA uses:

  • same rules than SOTA
  • Same summits with same REFs
  • new easy (lower) summits with new REFs so they will be able to activate up to 10 summits a days (as done this year)

I was thinking about what will happen next year, on a sunny summer week end.
We will find in 7030/7035 segments lots of activators calling SOTA and GMA together, with SOTA refs and GMA refs, and huge pile ups in a great mixture.
SX-080: is it a new GMA ref ? an old SOTA REF ? is it valid or not ? etc…

But once more, may be everybody will enjoy it !

That’s all for me.

73 Alain

In reply to F6ENO:

I did’nt wrote that; 7.032 is not a SOTA freq. It’s a QRP frequency.
So you can use this QRG for GMA, but mostly if you run a QRP rig.

You’re joking, aren’t you? Now I feel pretty bad. Keep in mind, I always used, always use and will always use between 30-100W as an activator and I will never run QRP. Like many other activators around 7032 who don’t use 5W. Plenty of room now to blame all of “us”.

73 Norby

In reply to LX1NO:

You’re joking, aren’t you? Now I feel pretty bad. Keep in mind, I
always used, always use and will always use between 30-100W as an
activator and I will never run QRP. Like many other activators around
7032 who don’t use 5W. Plenty of room now to blame all of
"us".

May we understand that you and some others activators decided that 7030/7032 is no more a QRP segment ?

73 Alain

In reply to F6ENO:

May we understand that you and some others activators decided that
7030/7032 is no more a QRP segment ?

You may interpret things the way you want. I only said that I never use QRP on any frequency and I know plenty of activators who don’t run QRP.

I know for myself that I avoid 7030 and 14060 since that’s considered to be a QRP frequency.

You see me surprised that you start complaining about non-QRP activities on 7032 and around only now and not months/years ago. Since you are stating to use 150W on a “QRP frequency”, that’s not very kind either. It makes no difference if you are sitting at home or in the woods, not running QRP.

Enjoy,
73 Norby

In reply to F6ENO:

I gather from reports that a new band plan has been agreed for 40m, so we will have to wait and see if they have moved the QRP segment. While the bandplan is an agreement that should be kept to, a 30 watt transmission will only be several dB stronger than a 5 watt transmission, so I don’t see that there is much problem. Now if there was a kilowatt linear involved…! :slight_smile:

73

Brian G8ADD

In reply to LX1NO:

You see me surprised that you start complaining about non-QRP
activities on 7032 and around only now and not months/years ago. Since
you are stating to use 150W on a “QRP frequency”, that’s not
very kind either. It makes no difference if you are sitting at home or
in the woods, not running QRP.

So, if I understand you, when a QRP station is calling somewhere on a QRP segment, only QRP rigs may reply…

73 Alain

In reply to DH8DX:

You should stop to dictate others, Alain.

OK Dan, I stop to “dictate”…much appreciated word.

73 Alain

In reply to F6ENO:

So, if I understand you, when a QRP station is calling somewhere on a QRP
segment, only QRP rigs may reply…

Interpret whatever you want.

In reply to LX1NO:

Guys, this is starting to sound a bit unfriendly: please remember that this is supposed to be the season of good will, and don’t force me to take unpalatable steps. If this continues a thread that was initially useful will get locked down.

73

Brian G8ADD

The whole year should be a season of good will, Brian, not just because it is Christmas.

Peter

Dear friends , i see the debate is in full play.
It makes me sad.
Don´t forget , who creates this desaster - it was the MT , and not we !
Some days before i was thinking about to say GOOD BYE SOTA, but today i don´t know what am i to do ?
Everyday when i have a look from the roof of my house , i can see more than 30 mountains near my location. They had been there for more than tenthousand years and they will be there in tenthousand years and evermore, long after us and our debate . But the opionion of the MT is , that the most of them are no longer mountains! And that is , what i can not understand.
But i have decided for me , i don´ t let me take the fun!
Because it makes fun to work outside with low power , batteries and simple wires and i like it very much to hiking through the mountains. With or without the radio. With or without the MT!
The logigal consequence is the GMA.
Here in Saxony we have a long tradition in combine hiking and radio , since 1983 we have the Saxon Mountain Contest . Anyway it is only on VHF but we have a lot of fun. Ideal to bring close our hobby to our family and the children.
In my point of view i will also in the next year operate from the mountains , whether or not in SOTA , GMA or any other . It is just hobby , not more.
WE ARE THE ACTIVATORS!
I wish all here a merry christmas and a happy sucessfull new year

73 de Ben DL2DXA

In reply to DL2DXA:

Well said Bernd, plain speaking.

Auch Dir ein frohes Fest und einen guten Rutsch.

73, Steffen

In reply to DL2DXA:
Dear Bernd, dear all

I must admit that I was growing too ‘hot’, but it’s me !
Some words or sentences are difficult to swallow… but everybody may express oneself.

Well, reading your words, now the pressure is decreasing…
For me, I have only one challenge in SOTA next year, so I hope I can reach it.

Good luck to GMA, good luck to SOTA, and let’s have fun in mountains !

Merry Christmas to all

Alain F6ENO

In reply to GW0DSP:

super :-(( … I say just because! Again a mountain more competitive. Not that we in DM/SX already have a mountain competitions. No, now comes a third. GMA (the German Mountain Award). Only a pity the extreme activities subside. Where I was 3 years ago with SOTA’ve started here were up to 5 activators simultaneously on different mountains and called CQ. SOTA That was fun. Unfortunately, since this year the air out.
I’m glad per weekend even if a station is still CQ-Sota calls.
Unfortunately, many do SOTA Activator in DL frustrated that no one will activate.
Drat. Meanwhile it was a really nice SOTA INTERNATIONAL mountain competition.
I have in the past 3 years, so much new Europe-wide/ world-wide OMs know and appreciate learned when I was on the mountain.
Thanks again for the many calls.
I will not get the time being let go but SOTA. It’s just a pity that such a disaster brings a lot to the end. Really a shame.
I can only hope the discus ions stop in DL and the people their radios back to the immigration and take this as fun and not continue in frustration go!

Let us all be happy and have a nice Christmas.
Merry Christmas & HNY

Joerg DG0JMB / @ home

In reply to DL2DXA:

Ben, SOTA was never intended to cover every mountain or hill that you can see, it was intended to pick out the most prominent mountains - not just the highest ones but the ones that stood out more at all levels of size, hence the concept of prominence. This was set out in the rules from the very beginning, nothing was hidden, you only had to read the rules.

It seems to me that some of you are angry because the SOTA that was created is different to the SOTA that you would like to see. The MT have been treated like an enemy, you yourself write angry and bitter words about the MT, and why? Because the MT will not change the very basis of SOTA to suit you. The focus of your anger is the mountains that are being deleted from the German list, but you only have to read the rules to understand that they should never have been on the list in the first place. They are still mountains, they are still beautiful and inspiring places, but they somehow managed to find their way onto a list where they did not belong. Now you have the GMA, and the mountains that you love will be on the GMA list, and that pleases me, too, but the SOTA mountains will still be there presenting their extra challenge.

As you say, Ben, WE ARE THE ACTIVATORS, but that applies to the MT, too. I have loved the mountains since I was first able to walk, there isn’t a single person in the MT that does not love the mountains, why otherwise should they carry such a burden and have to hear the endless complaints aimed at them?

I wish you many happy days in the mountains in 2009 and the rest of your life,

Brian G8ADD

In reply to G8ADD:

Brian, I buy that! No doubt whatsoever.

The only thing I do complain about is, that it took about 3 years to find out that so many references in DL are not valid. This should have been found out earlier, which, in return, would not have led to these fruitless “discussions”.

The same is true for ON. All 8 references (100%) can be considered invalid from the start on (6/8 are deleted and 2/8 get corrected co-ordinates). More carefull checking beforehand would given SOTA a higher value, I think. Reading about “corrections” like this tend to make people laugh.

Anyway, I compare SOTA to IOTA. IOTA does not cover all islands but lots of countries have their own island program and they do co-exist nicely, side by side. They even share the same frequencies which looks like a problem for SOTA people. I’ve been abroad in a lot of countries WW and I think I know what I’m talking about.

Or take lighthouse awards, there are at least 2 international ones and plenty of local ones. No harm.

Somebody should come up with a good reason to explain why this could not be true for summit awards in general. Getting senseless comments on the air (or reading them here) while activating is not really usefull at all and it won’t change anything. A bit more tolerance would be a nice Xmas present.

73 Norby

In reply to LX1NO:

Good points, Norby, although the checking was not considered to be an MT responsibility until after so many problems were uncovered: my own bookcase has very few maps of German areas and none at all for Belgium and Holland other than motoring maps. Only recently have software and data become available that will let the MT check, at least on a reconaissance level, summits anywhere in the world.

Yes, tolerance is a fast depleting resource in the modern world, we need to mine new veins of it!

73

Brian

In reply to G8ADD:

The problem was clearly highlighted at the outset Brian, but no action was taken back then. However, MT have now made the only decision available to them and applied the rules which govern ALL associations, they had no other option, what else could they do without affecting the rest of the associations in the scheme? The only mistake MT made was not to act on the information sent to them years ago.

It’s no secret that I am upset and saddened by current events and to see the loss of so many summits. Having visited Germany, I now know how our German friends feel. For them, SOTA and the mountains should be for all, for the family, children and the not so fit to be able to take part. This is important to the German family and rightly so.

Let’s hope that the situation settles down. SOTA, the GMA and BOTA all have a place in amateur radio and can co-exist without problems if we all display a bit of tolerance towards each other.

Let’s face it, no organisation has a monopoly on the mountains/radio and I suspect that even more schemes will be announced in the near future.

The bottom line is that we should wish them well in their adventures and all learn to work side by side irrespective of the banner under which we activate/chase.

73
Mike

In reply to M1EYP:

Have great respect regarding the comprehensive work which was done for SOTA infrastructure - database, homepage, alert, watch, reflector…

What all unites us - we love the mountains and amateur radio. Including love to chase.

Merry XMAS and a healthy 2009 to all readers !

Tom, the simplest way to avoid incompatibility between SOTA and GMA would be to contact the makers of GMA. Currently GMA base of summits looks like a superset versa german SOTA. Lets see how it will be accepted, how it develops it’s international aspect - maybe one day there will be british associations of a GMA (General Mountain Award ?) - just dreaming, it is XMAS…

73 andy DL2DVE

In reply to GW0DSP:

The problem was clearly highlighted at the outset Brian, but no action
was taken back then. However, MT have now made the only decision
available to them and applied the rules which govern ALL associations,
they had no other option, what else could they do without affecting
the rest of the associations in the scheme? The only mistake MT made
was not to act on the information sent to them years ago.

Mike,

I’m not sure that problem was highlighted as long ago as your message seems to suggest.

I seem to recall that many (perhaps most) of the Summits in the German Association were NOT in the very first issue of the German ARM, but were added sometime later at which point there were a number of questions raised as to the validity of them under the then applicable general rules (I guess this was a P150 rule at the time).

I agree that MT have made the only possible decision and actually allowed what I feel should have been ample time (over 12 months if I recall) for sorting out the lists and agreeing which summits should be retained under the SOTA program.

The fact that this has not happened until this late hour really cannot be blamed on the MT as they can only work with whatever information they are given at the time they are given it.

I am sure that it will all work out in the end and everyone will get to enjoy whichever aspect(s) they are really interested in, no matter it that be the SOTA, GMA, BOTA or some other program / scheme that we have yet to hear about.

73 & Happy Christmas.
Stewart
G0LGS