What a shame SOTA has become a typical dxpedition zoo.I do not see the point of continuous
calling when the activator is talking.
DO YOU NOT REALIZE HE CANNOT HEAR YOU??? G0RQL.
Subscribe! Gentlemen, SOTA is too beautiful to make it a s****y zoo… (sorry for the language, but…)
(Edited by moderator, the word was unacceptable although I acknowledge the provocation!)
Hear Hear, If I don’t get in very quickly then I go do something else until the constant over callers have gone. QRM from the XYL about the noise is bad enough without the noise of the zoo.
A shame it has turned in to this, victim of its own success I suppose.
Perhaps you have forgotten that we have an established procedure for dealing with alligator operators: you make a note of the callsigns of the worst offenders and pass them on to me. There is a three stage procedure open to me, starting with a polite warning and culminating in total removal from the database. Just the initial warning has been effective with the few stations it has been issued to.
Brian G8ADD
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I’m writing this from my position as an activator not as a member of the MT,
I have had some issues in the past with a few chasers and the way they operate. I pointed this out to Brian and eventually he contacted some of them as they continued to operate in way that made it less pleasant for everyone chasing me. The results were the people contacted apologised for not being aware they were really just QRM. Since the emails, operating standards of the 2 or 3 stations I was having issues with have risen massively such that I’m happy to hear them chasing.
So based on the few cases so far, my impression is this procedure works well. If you have issues then a quick email to Brian is what is needed. It takes a bit of time to resolve itself so patience is needed still.
The blame for this CANNOT be put solely on the shoulder of the chasers. I don’t know how many times I have seen activators change bands every 4 to 6 minutes. With that short of a time window what else would you expect them to do. This is NOT an excuse for bad operating…not even close. But if you are going to go up on a peak just to get your 4 buddies as chased contacts…well then you are part of the problem.
I’ve waited for activators to come up on a band that I know I will be able to hear only to have them there for 6 minutes and as little as 3 minutes. I can even take a leak or get a soda in that short of time.
Yes it is bad operating for chaser to call constantly but it is just as bad not to give everyone a chance at contacting you.
Off my soap box now.
Not seeing that happen in Eu. Is it a common occurrence over in NA?
Only the activator knows the conditions he has encountered on the summit. He may be unable to hear the chasers that you can hear because of propagation, he may be suffering QRM and/or blocking, he may be in a hurry because he can see a storm approaching, or may actually have severe weather at the summit, he may have to cut short the activation in order to get down safely before dark, he may be fighting off swarms of biting insects, the battery might be running flat, and so on. It is for this reason that we say that “the activator is king”, only he knows the constraints that he is operating under, sitting in a nice warm shack can give you no idea of his problems.
Brian G8ADD
Brian,
You assume a bit too much I think. What you say can be true but without calling someone out it will be impossible for me to change your mind.
I may not have activated that man peaks…but I can guarantee I have been on many more peaks than most…before I was a ham. Just saying.
Ken
Sorry I don’t mean to change the subject of this thread.
No sweat, Ken, SOTA attracts those of us that love the mountains. I myself have cut short activations because of severe conditions so my instinct is to give the benefit of the doubt.
Brian
Hi Brian,
Truncated activations aside another reason chasers can talk over others is the good ole QSB. I have on a couple of occasions thought the activator had put it back to me - he gave me a report and then nothing heard - so I have come back to him, only to find I had doubled. Oops, sorry!
Sometimes after a CQ call there will be a pile up in which half the responders can’t hear anyone except the activator and even he may go from Q5 to zip due to QSB. This can cause problems which only the activator can sort out, but even then some problems can occur.
In VK at least it’s all been handled in good spirit.
Yes I’ve heard EU chasers repeatedly calling at the wrong times but I’ve put it down to QSB and keenness.
73
Ron
VK3AFW
100% agree Don. I have only seen this happen over the last week. Before that it didn’t seem so bad (there was one operator who repeatably called, but I think that is an equipment change-over delay problem of that particular Op and he is OK otherwise).
Now it seems lots of operators keep reapeat calling - either while others are calling or indeed while the activator is talking! Then they give the activator a 5-8 or 5-9 (without QSB) report. If the activator was a weak signal with them then in some ways I could understand but if he(or she) is 5-9 then CRIKEY don’t call when the activator has already gone back to another caller.
When I made contact with a couple of activators yesterday, I could not hear my report from him as other chasers were still calling over the top of his reply to me. I don’t have a directional Yagi, so I can’t null out the interfering stations.
- Call only once
and if you don’t get the contact WAIT! My experience is that an activator will try to work all stations that call him or her if possible (weather / time permitting).
We’re also getting “tail-end-charlies” hoping to get through, calling at the end of the pile-up. If they only call at the end, that’s OK (sort of) as long as the activator has not yet replied to another station but if this is a reapeat call because others have also called, it becomes Chaos Manor.
Conditions were very good on 20m on Friday and Saturday, so the pile-ups were bigger than usual, but that’s no reason for the behaviour that occurred. I believe the majority of the chasers could hear each other.
With the size off these pile-ups if behaviour doesn’t improve, the only other option is for the activator to operate split, so that one can always hear the activator but this is annoying to other band users where two frequencies (or even a range of frequencies) gets used rather than just one.
73 Ed DD5LP.
P.S. Ron - in the issues I have seen this weekened, they were not accidental doubling and QSB wasn’t a factor. Simply put - BAD OPERATING.
That is the only part of your post that I disagree with, Ed, the rest is right on the money! On 20 metres (the bread-and-butter DX band) I only ever hear other Brits when they are very close to me, so although I can hear (all too well!) the lids in the Mediterranean countries I have no idea how many UK lids there are.
IMHO the worst offenders are the competitive “tail-end-charlies”, trying to be the last call which is the one that is most likely to be picked out by the activator. You often hear them triggering off each others calls whilst underneath them the activator is working another station. Then, of course, there is the pest that has a quick tune-up on channel before joining the fun…
Brian
There are good and there are bad operators.
Activators need to demonstrate good standards by not working disruptive chasers to clear them quickly.
Chasers need to ensure they can actually hear the activator before transmitting and not to call over the final overs of a previous QSO so they are first for the next QSO. Or to operate so they are disruptive to other QSOs.
Everyone needs to remember the best prize available to SOTA operators is the respect of your peers.
For those who continue to be awkward and disruptive we have the method listed above.
I’d just say, two wrongs don’t make a right.
I don’t chase at all, except from out on the hills or on my way to them - no home shack. So I can’t comment on that.
Every activator I’ve come across in the UK tries to answer all calls before packing up. The exceptions being for weather and other influences. But I for one make that very clear to chasers when I start an activation. It’s usually because I have non SOTA people with me. Even then I just try to rattle through people with simple call sign and signal report QSOs until I call a couple of times with no reply. Now, this can take just 5 or 10 minutes. But if the pile up has gone and I’m in a hurry I don’t hang about. If there is no time pressure I’ll take a break and try again a few minutes later.
Anyway, back to the original question - just tell the MT. They have the tools available to make the problem go away.
73 Gerald
OK accepted Brian - my reason for saying that is that some chasers (including more than one UK based chaser) call immediately after another one has started calling (at the end of a lot of other calls) - as if “triggered” by the other chasers call.
73 Ed.
Because you’re in NA. Dont expect me dont call CQ for an hour without been called.
I probably drove 60 to 90 minutes to get to summit area, hiked 45 to 90 minutes if not more with the radio gear, lead acid battery (yes I’m poor), need to take lunch etc…
If nobody calls me after 3 minutes CQing on a specific freq, with all spotting facilities we got, I’ll QSY simply because I can’t take the entire day on this waiting for someone to finally show.
To the contrary, I’ll think the band doesnt work. I’am running 5 watts, not 100 or 1000.
I don’t agree any burden should be put on activators shoulders.
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What I have encountered quite frequently is a spot appearing on SOTAwatch, but by the time I get the rig fired up and tuned to the spotted frequency the activator has already gone. It can be quite irritating when that happens.
73,
Walt (G3NYY)
All I ask is that if any of you, chasers or activators, can identify a station that is being very disruptive in their calling, you make a note of his callsign and pass it on to me. We cannot stamp out poor operating but we can firmly discourage the worst offenders and hope to gradually achieve an improvement.
Brian
I want to say that I don’t have this feel at all. Whenever I activate and when I hear other activations (not too many due to little time available for chasing), operating manners of the hams in the pile up is, IMHO, correct. Of course there may be some few of them whose operating skills are not best in class yet, but this is something that usually takes some time and I would recommend all of us to be patient and try to help our colleagues on learning and improving.
As we say in Spanish “Nadie nace aprendido” which I would translate to English like: "Nobody get born educated"
Best 73 de Guru - EA2IF
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