Last evening (0020 UTC) I was able to log KQ6UP on 14.280 KHZ. as he was activating W6/CT-014 - Kratka Ridge, CA… He had to move to .280 due to a station KK4HBA in Clearwater, FL. making random QSO’s on the QRP calling frequency of 14.285 KHz.
When someone has a schedule for activating a summit and is going to be using the 14,285 freq. way doesn’t someone waiting to work the activator get on the frequency and start-up a conversation with another SOTA member to “keep the frequency”? All you have to do is check periodically to see if the activator is ready to make his run, then give him the frequency.
Currently I only have 100 watts from a TS-430-S and a vertical antenna But I’d be happy to help in anyway I can to hold the frequency for someone. Hearing QRP is hard enough for me without the additional non-QRP stations to clutter up the frequency.
I’m new to the hobby and so far have worked 3 activations for 16 points. Long way to go to get the 100 point level, BUT I’m having fun trying.
Also, quick question - If I can barely hear an activator can I ask for a relay (someone have them listen for my report, and I acknowledge their report back). The relaying station could give the activator my call-sign and QTH. Would this count as a valid QSO in SOTA rules?
Thanks for letting me vent my concern.
Chuck Dobbins - KA5PVB
Alpine, TX.
I am struggling to get my head around the concept of a qro station sitting on a qrp frequency to “protect” it for an anticipated possible imminent SOTA activation.
There is no need to use recognised qrp frequencies anyway. Just find a clear one and self spot it.
In reply to KA5PVB:
I agree with Tom. Having alerts and spots giving the frequencies (either by chasers or selfspots or RBN on CW) SOTA does not need to stick to the QRP frequencies.
Using QRP frequencies for SOTA is problematic anyway. Many activators are QRP stations so it is fine for them calling on a QRP frequency. But the majority of the chasers runs more than QRP so in fact this is abuse of the QRP frequency already.
Please also keep in mind QRP is not exclusive to SOTA. So some other QRP operators may be quite annoyed about the QRO stations chatting on “their” frequency.
Generally I hate the idea of considering frequencies as property of single operators, nets, etc. and as a consequence I dislike all actions to “reserve” a frequency in advance.
Nothing is more annoying than listening to a quiet frequency for some time, starting to CQ and being burried in QRM immediately by some operators just for the sake of keeping this frequency free.
Of course as soon an activator has occupied a frequency all efforts to avoid losing it again are appreciated. An activator working QRP has only limited means of defending his frequency. Here a chaser’s strong signal can be very helpful. But as in any case on the band check whether intervention is really necessary and always be considerate.
Also, quick question - If I can barely hear an activator can I ask for
a relay (someone have them listen for my report, and I acknowledge
their report back). The relaying station could give the activator my
call-sign and QTH. Would this count as a valid QSO in SOTA rules?
SOTA rules state "The Chaser must make a QSO with the Summit Expedition, in which at least callsigns and two-way reports are exchanged."
The common understanding of a two-way QSO requires both stations hearing each other. If you need a relay station repeating callsigns and signal reports you actually do not have a QSO with the activator but with the relay station. So to my mind this is not a valid QSO at all.
I guess if you can’t hear your report then it’s not really a valid qso, often if you hang around and try a bit later you’ll get it depending how deep any qsb is. I don’t think relaying reports is completely ethical, well, to me anyway. It’s a personal choice, but if you’re asking it might mean you’re not sure if it is yourself.
As for the qrp qrg, if the 2 “sota members” are both qrp stations then that’s great, but if not? There’s other hams that aren’t “sota members” but are using qrp.
I think you’ll get to shack sloth in no time Chuck, good dx.
In reply to DB7MM:
Very good answers to a very thoughtful idea . I had a chaser advise another station I was qrv the other day on a summit. The question was asked and I replied yes the frequency is in use but they did not hear me so a chaser who had just worked me advised the person calling over me. No apology just a grumble and they qsy.
The regular “nets” on every day on a specific frequency are the ones that affect us most on VK, we like to keep those blokes “regular” otherwise they get grumpy. But now SOTA is busy in VK they are more aware of us and we move or avoid the more regular nets on the weekend. Just because a net has been on a particular frequency for X years doesn’t make it their frequency same applies to an activator. be careful out there 73 de Ian vk5cz …
Using QRP frequencies for SOTA is problematic anyway. Many activators
are QRP stations so it is fine for them calling on a QRP frequency.
But the majority of the chasers runs more than QRP so in fact this is
abuse of the QRP frequency already.
Please also keep in mind QRP is not exclusive to SOTA. So some other
QRP operators may be quite annoyed about the QRO stations chatting on
"their" frequency.
I have to disagree, Michael. IMHO it is perfectly valid for a higher power station to call a QRP station on a QRP frequency: in the case of SOTA it is the QRP activator that is using the frequency and the chasing station is briefly visiting. I cannot find any rule - or, more accurately, recommendation that a QRP station using the QRP frequencies should only contact other QRP stations. Since only one station should be holding the frequency at a time, the question of QRO interference doesn’t arise.
Much as we would like it to be otherwise, the “QRP Frequency” of 14.285 is not mandatory or protected in any way - and in fact 14.285 is a “centre of activity” not a spot frequency!
And just as 14.195 +/-5 has “Priority for DXpeditions” if the frequency is free then anyone (even Nino IT9RYH) has legitimate claims on its use.
In the early days of SOTA, stations would hold a frequency waiting for an activator but the advent of the various spotting options open to activators has let this practice die.
I will always be grateful to an OY station when I was activating one of the North Scotland hills who acted as “mother hen” for me. A Scandinavian QRO contest started during my activation (and I was struggling to qualify the hill)and this particular station waited and managed to get contest stations to leave my frequency clear until I finished. In my mind this was an example of all that is good in our amateur hobby - mind you it also ensured he had a clear frequency for the contest once I finished so not completely altruistic!!!
In reply to G8ADD:
Brian,
I think what Michael was suggesting is that we should stay off the recognised QRP COA frequencies.
As has been noted above, there is absolutely no need to set oneself up bang in the centre of QRP COA, in fact I think it should be actively discouraged.
I have a foot in both camps, as both a SOTA chaser/activator but also as 100% QRP op.
It was actually the encroachment of SOTA pileups around 7.030 and 14.060 that brought my attention to the SOTA program so it’s not all bad :-), but the pileups do cause real issues for low power stations who meet on those frequencies for 2xQRP contacts. Many of us we don’t even have the luxury of QSYing as some of our rigs are rock bound!
I know it’s our choice to operate in this way but all we ask is for a couple of khz of space to enjoy one aspect of the hobby.
Even though I’m QRP on activations I’ll not generally operate within 2Khz of the QRP COA as I’m aware of the issues it creates for non SOTA ops.
As for relaying of reports/callsigns. I can’t see how that is anything different from a Phantom QSO (see thread up there ^).
72
Pete
Yes, but Pete, what if a rock-bound QRP op wants to do an activation? It does seem that a lot of CW activators are using various incarnations of the Altoids configuration, but are you serious that higher powered stations should not call them because they are within some nebulously defined private preserve? Won’t that reduce their chances of qualifying their activation? And what are these “issues” that you refer to? Look, if a 5 watt QRP station is called by a 100 watt station, the difference (all other things being equal) is 13 dB, effectively two “S” points, and I would hardly call that an overwhelming difference likely to cause blocking of adjacent channels!
What I suspect that we have here is really just a form of tribalism, “keep out of our territory not because you are causing us problems but because you aren’t a member of our tribe!”
Oh yes, back to relaying reports. You are right, that practice breaks rule 3.8.2.
It does seem that a lot of CW activators are using various
incarnations of the Altoids configuration, but are you serious that
higher powered stations should not call them because they are within
some nebulously defined private preserve?
Not at all. I’m one of those Altoids tin activators but wherever possible I’ll move away from the QRP COA.
Most activators however are not rock bound so there’s absolutely no need to sit on 7030 or wherever. Saying that, it’s actually rare that this is the case anyway down at the cw end. I’m not sure what goes on up at the other end of the band as it’s not somewhere I regularly lurk, but it sounds like the OP was referring to SSB anyway.
Look, if a 5 watt QRP station is called by a 100
watt station, the difference (all other things being equal) is 13 dB,
effectively two “S” points, and I would hardly call that an
overwhelming difference likely to cause blocking of adjacent channels!
I know I know. Try preaching to those that climb hills with a huge SLA on their back in order to get that extra S point
What I suspect that we have here is really just a form of tribalism,
“keep out of our territory not because you are causing us problems but
because you aren’t a member of our tribe!”
Not at all. There’s a lot of QRP activity if you listen. Problem is that when a SOTA activation comes along people don’t! If they did they wouldn’t call over ongoing QSOs, have phantom QSOs etc., but there’s already about 3 other threads running on those issues.
Back to my tribal home :-?
Pete
May be out rock bound on 14.057Mhz tomorrow with 300mW…
We have a limited amount of space and we all have to fit in. If we all play nice with each other we all get to make more contacts.
There are no reserved frequencies. We just have to do the best we can and use whatever we can to attract attention whilst trying not to spoil things for others.
It’s much easier for SOTA CW ops now. QRP SSB can be hard if you can’t spot yourself. That just makes the QSOs nicer when you do make some.
In reply to G8ADD:
I see your point, Brian. As long as the QRO chasers are “briefly visiting” the situation is ok even in my eyes. I have to admit I myself have chased many activators using my 100W on QRP frequencies. I even have called CQ SOTA several times on 21.285 MHz and was happy about every QRO station coming back. So in fact I am preaching water but drinking wine.
But I still dislike the idea of QRO stations “reserving” a QRP frequency in advance for a potential activator.
Anyway Pete and Andy have summarized the situation well so there is nothing to add.
Of course, as good efficient hams we reduce our power when we hear we are 599, right. It would be helpful if chasers called rockmite activators at low power anyway as when 2 big stns call it sounds like about 20 due to RX imd. The AGC consists of the earphones being blasted out of the lugs just before the cochlea gives up for the day.
Rockmites often tend to be a little off the QRP qrg anyway, even more with the shift button.
73,
Ian, also now 100% QRP Pete (who seems to be 579 when chasing me)
Well, reducing power on my TS-520S is not that simple, I either have to unplug a 6146 or reduce drive, but as it happens I do a lot (perhaps most) of my chasing with the 817 anyway - I don’t make a thing of being QRP, it just seems natural…though I am an all phone operator and a lot of people seem to imagine that QRP is OK on CW but useless on phone!
Excellent brian, the 817 is a great rig. I started with one myself and knew no different. I occasionally regret selling it to move to another rig, QRP again. I don’t do ssb any more, but it always seemed OK on that mode.
