Hi,
I never used S2S, always /P and the another sota operator gives me the change in the pile-up
Not for me thanks.
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s2s is very distinctive and the “2” only takes 1 second to transmit at 20wpm.
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Both voice and CW operators refer to S2S when writing it down. Under this proposal they’ll be voice operators who’ll keep referring to s2s when writing and CW operators who refer to ‘ss’,
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In poor conditions ss could get lost in exchanges. I think there’s probably a few associations that have SS in their regional designations - as in GM/SS-155 - So many dots… and:-
4 if anyone makes a mistake sending 's2s its likely to be in the dits. but given the context even “H2S” or something similar it is still likely to be recognised as a poorly sent S2S.
But what about the poorly sent ‘SS’.? HI?, IS? SI S I, EE ? etc., could be a part of a word you missed. -
S2S is as others have said very, very distinctive. Its no coincidence that SOS was chosen as the pre-amble for a distress call because it is also very distinctive .
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/P is also widely used to get an activators attention that they are portable and (probably) on another SOTA summit. SS could be almost anything amongst numerous chasers calls.
David
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My experience puts it at between 90 and 95%.
But yeah, /P works best for me. I answer a SOTA call with “M1EYP/P” with my 5 watts in the thick of a European QRO chaser pile-up, and often the activator comes back with “/P?”.
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Not only so many dots but so many bogs… it’s the kind of summit people only visit once!
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In order not to digress, the original post only explicitly mentions the cw mode.
Oddly, in the various comments on the experience of handling s2s QSOs in cw there are some that are not at all consistent with what I have made.
Some statistics: My first s2s QSO was logged on 15.04.2013 with Paul DF2GN/p on 24 MHz, my last on 11.11.2021 with Hannes DL3NM/p on 5 MHz.
BTW, my very first s2s QSO (when the s2s ranking list didn’t exist yet) was on 04.07.2012 with Markus HB9HVK/p on 14 MHz.
Fact
For the 5196 s2s QSOs in cw made in the mentioned period (in Europe …), a caller NEVER drew attention to himself by sending “s2s”, really NEVER
(if this was done, then always with “/p” … and we are talking here, as mentioned, exclusively about the practice in the cw operating mode).
In the early years of s2s ranking list, when the pileups were not yet as dense and not as doggedly ambitious as they are today, as an activator you could easily identify a s2s prospect from a handful of calling stations (e.g. by the suffix /p or the call sign or simply his handwriting).
With the ever-growing pileups (typically 20-40 callers) and the ever better “equipped” home stations, it became increasingly difficult for Activators interested in s2s to be heard by Activator colleagues. Unfortunately, the suffix /p used was of no use either, because many of the home stations send out a double call, which then covers the suffix /p. For this reason, it has become common practice to only send /p at a suitable moment (e.g. if confusion has arisen or at the beginning or end of a call phase). This /p is usually only successful if sent very quickly…
Unfortunately, there are also cases today where /p is sent absolutely inappropriately, e.g. during an ongoing QSO or when no one else answers the cq calls of an activator and the frequency is free…
Well, that’s getting a bit long and may just be typical for Europe (or HB9).
Either way, have fun at cw.
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I am usually not in such a hurry that I could not send S2S…
73 Heinz
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This sounds like deception by home chasers wanting to be given higher priority by the activator - in which case I’m sorry to hear about such behaviour. I don’t think it’s happened to me but then you Heinz have been doing SOTA for much longer and more often.
I find /P stations usually send their summit reference without my having to ask (the HB9 ones always do!). Would it help to discourage this cheating practise if you sent “pse ur ref or loc?” to check that the /P responder really is a portable station?
I find that rather striking, because “summit to summit” is routinely heard on phone, with the equally routine reply “come in the summit to summit station”.
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That never occurred to me, Brian, until you mentioned it. It shows the difference in protocol between voice modes and CW.
In a 2m FM pileup I will say “summit to summit” and not my callsign (especially in adverse weather) to alert the activator that some of the multiple responders are not sitting comfy in a shack with QRO rigs. But as Heinz said, I would never do that in a CW pileup. I just hope the other activator favours me because of my /P suffix.
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It goes further than that, Andy, because I frequently hear phone activators being told by a caller that there is a summit to summit station calling him. I have done so a number of times myself. Though the pile-ups on phone are as tumultuous as on CW, there is a thread of courtesy amongst the chasers, knowing that the other activator is running lower power and would appreciate some help - the old ham spirit still endures!
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Absolutely not, as others have said it has worked fine for years and is easily recognised in SSB. It appears in NA when looking for a summit to summit the standard procedure in CW is to send S2S whereas in Europe we generally send /P.
I know that here most activators use the /P suffix, unlike NA where it normally isn’t used.
Just my tuppence worth.
73 Victor GI4ONL
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Yes “Summit to summit” on phone works well. I do that. Just sending my call with the /P on the end works best for me on CW.
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Yes I hear that too sometimes and that (ie a third party ‘breaking in’ often without a callsign to offer helpful info) is possible with voice modes because the parties can distinguish between stations by the sound of the voice. A third party break in with CW mode would be confusing so everyone (well nearly everyone) avoids it.
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YES I also think that there is a different culture between NA and EU in this respect.
As often mentioned, in the EU the call: " /p " has become established in CW. It has a nice rhythm and a high recognition value.
Of course it is also used when Fieldday, GMA, FF, POTA, … stations are calling and is therefore not always an S2S. (We had already discussed this topic.) In this respect, a clear indication, such as the “summit to summit” in phonics, would be more helpful.
Nevertheless, we should stick with the " /p ". It is easy to pick out and usually indicates a chaser with low power (QRP)… and that alone makes me prefer it.
73 Armin
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I think there’s little or no chance for confusion when hearing the /P suffix if people listen for a while to the calling station. As the saying goes Patience is a virtue.
One knows [or should know if one follows the age-old guidance to radio amateurs during training] which specific activity (if any) the station is engaged with, e.g. cq sota de g8cpz/p e.g. cq test de m0alc/p
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Can’t see any correlation between 2 dots at the start of the figure 2 in CW with 3 dashes for an O in SOS. You do what you like I will still be sending S2S to represent summit 2 summit. Chances are the other activator I am trying to contact will under stand and probably know I am out and about on a summit as he has checked SW3 Alerts and Spot page. Something like WW [Where’s Wally] might be confusing but S2S is perfect for the job.
vk5cz …
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Of course… but the point here was that OPs on other summits make themselves noticed in order to enable s2s.
And they call the activator only with the “/P”. If I as an activator get on it and send /P?, then I do not know whether a SOTA station or another /P station answers me.
73 Armin
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I don’t know about others, but on the occasions I send or indeed receive S2S in CW, it is to me like a single character. It is as natural a part of SOTA operation as the /P part of a callsign.
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Mike, thanks for putting out suggestions! I’m OK with using S2S and haven’t used /P. I thought /P just meant that you are a portable station?? I try to back off from chasing when I hear a S2S being sent. I realize not everyone likes to give S2S priority though! Hi Bob AC1Z
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I wish I had known that earlier this year when I activated a summit in France and suddenly heard “/P”. I simply didn’t recognise it and just assumed it was an incomplete call sign and so I missed my first opportunity for a S2S in CW as there were other callers I replied to instead.
I will now be listening for /P but can I ask what the activator should send in reply? Would “/P K” or “/P KN” be correct?
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