Elliot,
Not sure you understood. It wasn’t about some youthful escapade.
Here when a person is in their last days, confined to bed and in pain, an injection, referred to as end of life medication, is given. For pain relief of course and with appropriate approval. Then you slip into a pleasant haze and are gone before dawn.
73
Ron
VK3AFW
Well, my three score years and thirteen certainly have an effect on the length of walk-in, and the speed at which I can manage to place one foot in front of the other. While activating I certainly allow time for chasers to read any spot I’ve managed to post from the summit.
Ed DD5LP’s trick of leaving the radio on for a couple of minutes while he stretches his legs (and a swig of tea in my case) can often result in a call out of the blue - “are you still there?” - a quick hop back to the radio, and another in the log. Patience, and a little luck, can reap rewards…
Rob
I must practise regally waving my hand! Nah, the royalty are the originators and those jostling at the tops of the tables.
Yep, drive-ons, grassy green little tumps, Snowdon via the railway, I can do that and will do when the occasion arises, but SOTA is the icing on the cake and what I yearn for are the summits where you can look down on the clouds. There ain’t no cure for that, I can’t remember who said this saying first; you can take a man out of the mountains but you can’t take the mountains out of a man. Enough of this! The sun is shining and I have a lawn to mow!
Or you could just bear them in mind as a point of view which might at some point prove relevant.
No, wait, this is the Internet, its all or nothing! 
I just really enjoy the hobby @G8CPZ Andy, and it would take a bit more than rain, hail or snow to put me off 
I normally call for a good 10 minutes on every band to make sure I work all chasers, I know what it’s like sitting in the shack. I do have an auto tuner and doublet though, so in less than a minute I’m ready to call in.
But, you have to make that quick decision when on top of a mountain, and for me, after calling in the rain for 5 minutes and you get no answer, it’s time to move to another band.
73, GW4BML. Ben
Hi Ron,
Did get the part about staying on long enough for chasers to discover your spot.
Several times, I’ve had to speed up running through the bands for rapidly approaching lightning storms; felt bad about bailing out, when I knew there were many more chasers waiting. Like Brian, I’ll know when its time do do the easier ones. For now, Kay, KE7BGM and I, do what we can, and enjoy it thoroughly!
Ken
Jimmy @M0HGY and I are unique-bagging in the Kingdom of Fife tomorrow. Our priorities will be entirely selfish - qualifying the activations - hopefully four or five in the day - as quickly as possible! We will not leave a frequency with stations still calling, but once a frequency is worked down, if we’ve both qualified, it’ll be time to go QRT.
Nonetheless, I fully expect to work the likes of @SA4BLM , @EA2DT , @F5JKK et al several times in the day. They have “the knack” of catching me even when I’m not hanging around!
I’ve not heard of that. Is that a sub-section of the sport that only MG’s get to partake in?
I would like to take this thread as an opportunity to point out that the situation for an activator on a challenging alpine summit can be quite different to what a chaser might assume - time is typically really limited due to the risk of thunderstorms in summer or waiting companions and the descent ahead of you.
When you are on a multi-pitch alpine route, getting a handful of QSO before starting the descent ist often the most one can hope for.
Please understand and spread the word that QRTing after 6 or so QSOs is not a rude, ego-centric optimized SOTA strategy but instead a responsible approach in order to return safe and sound from our adventures on such summits.
73 de Martin, DK3IT
All true, but I think the question here is if activators are really aware that between posting a spot on SOTAwatch and it appearing there will be some time. Then add the time a chaser needs to “get on the chase” and you easily have a time span of 10 minutes. If you only spend 4 minutes on a band, then change to another, you don’t give the chasers - which you need to make your activation valid - enough time to chase you.
I don’t chase much, but I also saw this happening here in east Asia. Being aware of this I always spend at least 15 minutes on one band after I spot myself on SOTAwatch and did indeed notice that sometimes it will take 5-10 minutes before the chasers find me.
It all comes down to being understanding of each other. If they can, activators should be a little patient and give ample time to chasers to find them on the band of their spot. If due to circumstances an activator has to rush the activation the chaser has to simply shrug it off and wait for the next opportunity.
Yes, but I think it is important to stress a few things from the activator’s point of view:
If you do not self-spot (as per e.g. my self-imposed regime), you are at the grace of the RBN etc. ecosystem.
While typically, a spot from RBNhole will appear quickly after the first RBN station spots you, it can also take up to 10 minutes in some (not frequent, but also not super-rare) situations:
a) Frequency close to another station that you cannot hear.
b) A lot of RBN traffic to be processed by RBNhole, e.g. on a contest day.
c) Forced to change your operating frequency after the first RBN spot.
d) Second spot if you inject a few new CQs in idle times, or in order to check propagation.
In particular d) happens often - when the pile-up dries up, I add a few more CQs. This may lead to a new spot that you take as a new opportunity, while I am actually already packing up and ringing the “last order bell”.
When the situation permits, I also try to work all stations on the frequency.
But sometimes I reserve the decision to try a quick QRG to 30m or 20m in order to give a chance to the loyal Spanish chasers or to bet on 1 - 2 DX contacts.
The entire activation on HB/VS-006 (report here) lasted only 18 minutes, from taking off the backpack to making the first step of the descent.
And again, ten minutes on a summit can be really long if
Anyway, my reply is not a rant in any way, and I think I understand the frustration from a chaser’s perspective. But depending on the situation on the summit, it may look very differently for the activator ;-).
73 de Martin, DK3IT
If you operate on phone (many do! 
) and don’t or can’t self spot then you are dependant on a chaser finding you and spotting you. This can take some time. Even if you self spot, the occasional chaser spot helps confirm that the activation has not finished.
I think many of us already realise that alpine style activations are in effect a seperate category and likely to be fleeting - and the descent can be more hazardous than the climb!
I am quite often unsure whether a self-spot has appeared or not. Unless the phone signal is working extremely well, I don’t see my self spots. If I see the phone’s S meter flickering in and out, I often assume no success and may move on, possibly in less than 4 minutes depending on the levels of discomfort/ time etc.
I remember in simpler times, before spotting was available, the chaser had to monitor as many freq’s as possible. Roy G4SSH used to monitor at least two and more at times. He would monitor the well known ones like 7.032 and 10.118 etc but he quickly learnt the personal preferences and habits of his targets. He could read the activator’s mind or at least he could certainly read mine.
I greatly appreciate the facility of being able to spot myself but I guess spotting is for ‘guidance only.’ Things will sometimes go awry. Just a thought.
73, John
Sorry but that is nonsense TBH. Your self imposed regime is not to spot yourself but are happy for something else and automatic to do it for you! If you elect not to self spot you should not really rely on RBN or you may as well just spot yourself directly.
Hmm. Nonsense is a strong word ;-). It is my personal preference. One could (I am not!) also argue that using a smartphone with 5G internet connectivity on a summit to transmit the information that you will be communicating via radiotelegraphy at 12 wpm with 5W and a DIY transceiver is “nonsense” :-). Not trying to start a heated discussion, everybody should do as he or she prefers, really.
It is just an option for CW activators anyway, and yet I think it adds beauty to the activity that all communication from the summit is coming from the QRP CW rig.
And yes, I have failed on several summit because the RBN/RBNhole process failed, and returned empty-handed from a SOTA perspective, but with a joyful heart from a mountaineering point of view ;-). Several, times, mostly 10-pointer, many rare ;-).
I’m with you on the reasons for a quick activation Martin @DK3IT . Even in the UK (i.e. non-Alpine height/grade climbing) it may be necessary to allocate a strict activation cut-off time.
We (Nic & I) generally allocate 30 minutes per activation, which includes setup/antenna change time as well as on-air activity. For efficiency, we’ve started concentrating on one band and making that work, rather than swapping bands, endlessly calling CQ and hoping our spots get through. The timing might change if we are doing a really easy, walk-up summit like Gun G/SP-013, but for bigger, more remote summits we have to be quick because weather can change and the SOTA activation is not necessarily the sole aim of our day. We actually want to climb mountains - SOTA is a nice bonus, but it must not drive our decision making process, otherwise we are going to get caught out one day.
I’m working hard on my summit (and SOTA activation) blindness; I’d be all for sitting on top working as many people as I can, but Nic is far more sensible (and sensitive to the cold), so she ensures we don’t hang around. Reading ‘Into the Wild’ by Jon Krakauer whilst we were on Orkney last week gave me some insight into how those wanting to bag a summit (“it’s only another 500ft”) can pay the ultimate price.
I’m sorry if we ever miss a chaser or annoy someone for being a bit quick, but I hope our fairly accurate alerts help mitigate this and the fact that when Nic tells me I can only work 5 people, I’ll always push that to 7…10…maybe 15…until she threatens to throw the radio off the mountain! 
73, Simon & Nic
Martin,
Don’t take it too personally, your “nonsense regime” also has sympathizers, hi.
They probably still dream of the situation in the pre-Internet age, so the majority are probably already over 75 and are therefore becoming fewer and fewer, unfortunately.
All the more gratifying to hear that these genes live on in younger technology, radio and mountain enthusiasts like you.
73 keep it up Martin (http://www.martinhepp.de/)
Heinz
I did not find this explanation above so here is what also happens frequently. I have an alert in on the SOTA which will automatically spot me through the RBN. I work my pile-up for 15-20 min and worked many stations. When I call CQ again, if it has been more than 10 min the RBN will again RE-SPOT me. If I do not RX any calls, I change to a different band…So It “APPEARS” I have only been spotted on that frequency for 2-3 mins when I actually have been on that freq for 20-30 min. The RBN will re-spot every 10min every time it sees a CQ. This can be verified by scrolling down the most recent spots to see how long the activator has truly been on that band.
This has been my experience as a chaser and an activator.
Tim - K5DEZ
P.S. This is of course on CW only.
Ben, Nothing to apologise about.
You could have easily qualified the summit using 2m FM and moved on.
But despite the horrendous conditions, you also set-up for HF so others could chase - whilst your XYL and little one were shielding.
After our QSO that day (G/WB-008), I had it easy, seeking cover on whilst hail stones came down.
I recall making 4 contacts in 2 mins on May 22 GW/NW-028 (Creigiau Gleision) - aka The Swamp.
Chasers saw my alert and made contact. Would not have stayed a minute longer.
Looking forward to our next QSO.
73, Robert
June 25, 2022: G/WB-008 - The Golf Course
May 22, 2022: GW/NW-028 - The Swamp
InReach / satellite SMS delays are another cause of apparent short activations. InReach sms messages typicaly take 3-5 minutes to send whilst the device finds satellite coverage, and often as long as 10 mins. After which they go into power saving mode and try once every 20mins to send (by default).
I often realise the spot is still trying to send only when I go to QSY or pack up. Recall being criticised for a ‘3 minute’ activation shown on sotawatch of 20m when the timestamps on me actually submitting spots for 20m and 60m were15 mins apart - for this very reason.
Just one more for chasers to be aware of.
