But should (serious) travel be inevitable for those “only” going out for their enjoyment and the enjoyment of their chasers and all of the associated atmosphere without striving for goat etc.? Meeting many known and new people from a summit making some to many happy for a minute with the contact makes the trip much more worthwhile, doesn’t it?
You can hope for many folks activating their one rather close-in summit time after time. But not many hikers go the same hill on and on without a change.
SOTA is (soon: was) a way of additional fun for operating portable. If this add-on fun is too much restricted or canceled due to driving distance then there will have to be other add-ons and ways for portable oprating.
Chris DL8MBS
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Very true Rick.
You can find time, although sometimes its at the cost of lots of unnecessary stress I find. I still find though most software / new projects are being developed by my age group, but not always in radio !. This is not the case everywhere, but this could all change very quickly if the right aspects of the hobby are introduced.
You know the number of student licensed amateurs in UoM EE dept ? - 1 ! and around 5 staff. Most are not even aware the hobby exists from speaking to various students. We have a shortage of UK STEM students as it is.
Jonathan.
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There have always been other ways. Most folk at my local clubs seem to prefer beaches and fields to hilltops, and operating portable means putting up tall masts and getting generators running. I happen to have latched onto SOTA, and I’m happy that not every hilltop qualifies as a SOTA summit. It makes the ones that do at least a little special, and worth travelling to. And as getting to summits involves a fair bit of travel (which is limiting, of course), I can still involve myself by chasing. From a beach or field, if necessary.
73, Rick M0LEP
Anyone honest with themselves will have to admit SOTA is all about driving (or whatever alternative means such as trains and planes you may have) and not about climbing or hiking in terms of overall time spent. I would guess my ratio of drive/travel to hike overall lies in the 4:1 or 5:1 range. (the SW US is a BIG place). Sounds like that ratio is about to go up for some.
Cap W0CCA
[quote=“G2HFR, post:105, topic:10669”]STEM students[/quote]They may now be getting a little commonplace, but amateur high-altitude balloons have done a bit in the last few years to bring folk into amateur radio.
[quote=“W0CCA, post:107, topic:10669”]ratio of drive/travel to hike overall lies in the 4:1 or 5:1 range[/quote]For me it’s probably nearer 100:1. My nearest summit is at least a 10km drive, and the walk from the parking place to a suitable activating position could be stretched to 500 metres, but it’s a vey dull walk.
Sounds more like 10:1 to me that does!
[quote=“M1EYP, post:110, topic:10669, full:true”]
Sounds more like 10:1 to me that does!
[/quote]10000:500. 
That’s the nearest, and I’ve squashed and stretched the figures to make the ratio as low as possible. Even going by time it’s a 20 minute drive (on a very good day) followed by a five minute walk (maybe ten if you amble slowly)…
Are these distances so extraordinary? I just did a bit of distance checking: From my house to the highest mountain in England is 243.5 km, to the highest mountain in Wales its 166.4 km, and to the highest mountain in Scotland it is 527.3 km - and those are the straight line distances, by road it would be a lot further. My nearest 8-point summit is 115.3 km, the last one-point summit that I activated is Binsey, LD-041 at a mere 269.7 km. My nearest one point summit, CE-002 is just 16 km away but I either have to travel right across my home city taking about 40 minutes or do a very long indirect journey by motorway which is about half the time but twice the fuel…and after eight activations I’m bored with it!
Good SOTA summits do not sprout up in your garden (well, they might for a very few lucky people) you have to travel to them, and as mountains and major cities are not good neighbours you can expect a good journey - and that is right and proper as who wants to look down from a mountain to a noisy sprawling metropolis? Mountains are special places, worth the fuel spent reaching them and the effort scaling them. Why settle for less?
I have friends who don’t need the excuse of an activation to go to the mountains. When the weather forecast is good (i.e clear sunny weather and lots of snow and ice!) they will fill a car on a Friday evening to share the fuel bill and drive up to Glencoe, climb a mountain on Saturday, climb a smaller one on Sunday and drive back to be at work Monday morning. I can’t be bothered to calculate the road distance but as the crow flies it is over 500 km each way. They reckon its worth it, I concur!
Brian
Not 100% corect there Ian - consider VK5/SE-005 Mt. Lofty and VK5/SE-013 Mt Gawler. Both are drive up summits with parking.
73 Ed DD5LP/VK2JI
P.S. I’m making no comment on the P100/150 discussion as I believe it has all been said already (several times over).
Why again such an intentionally exaggerated comparison as “argument”? Nobody required this summit in the garden. There are at least some simply pointing to the fact that with growing driving distance the level of activity will be negatively influenced - as is given by everyday reasons. Besides the “we expect activity to grow again” some minutes ago I missed so far some emotion for those simply doing SOTA for their fun and the fun of chasers and now being somewhat chased off by driving distance and needed time. One can say “farewell” with at least expressing sorrow or one can simply say “you expect too much and will be replaced soon” by those “real” hikers&hams not having to care about time.
Of course I - like possibly everyone here - did not read each and every line, but there was little impression that the MT somewhat regrets “collateral” losses of ops and activity - somewhat only appearing now again as whiners wanting a “good summit in the garden”.
But again there is a parallel in contesting where for a long time everyone who could not afford “full time” activity (24 up to 48h) was denounced as being not a “real contester” - as if ressouces had something to do with skill and spirit for the activity.
Chris DL8MBS
P.S.: On a funny sidenote: Arguments like “I have friends who don’t need the excuse of an activation to go to the mountains.” sounds like a Mercedes dealer advertising VW 
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I wonder when at last people will realise that this is a done deal and stop wasting their time on posting messages that will go no where. As I have said and I will repeat endlessly SOTA is very simply a rewards scheme that awards certificates to radio amateurs who score points within the scheme by activating P150 summits. It is nothing else apart from concessions to extremely low profile countries/states to be P100 given real paucity of P150 summits. The judgement of that deviation from the original scheme design must be a decision for the scheme organisers and will be subject to verification based on available or evolving geographic data, Anyone can do any other scheme that they wish within an alternative platform but that will not be SOTA. SOTA is a specific definition - not ANY hills but P150 summit with some very clearly defined exceptions, It will not be dragged into other parameters where others are fully able to organise parallel schemes for alternative definitions.
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Evidently my sense of humour does not translate too well. Ignore it, then, and look at the point at the core of what I was saying. Here in a P150 Association most of us have to drive hundreds of kilometres to reach summits in the higher points bands, but SOTA has not faded away here, and I don’t suppose it will in DM or anywhere else.
As for Mercedes dealers advertising VW, it wasn’t an argument, it was an anecdote illustrating a point, and the point is that if you really, REALLY want to do something, you will find a way of doing it. My friends live, eat and breathe mountains - well, I do too, but though the spirit is willing the flesh is getting weak. Age can eventually take me out of the mountains but it won’t take the mountains out of me!
You are lucky, Chris, as Moderator it is my duty to read every post - even the posts on topics that bore me stiff! As for regrets - of course we regret any losses of ops and activity, but why should regrets impact on what we see as a duty?
Brian
Really? Isn’t it all too natural when paragraphs meet passion? Of course passion only wins in bad movies
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Of course, but it can endlessly and boringly go on infinitum. In fact this has been going on for so long. See my posts and those of our founder at Ive got the hump - #3 by G0CQK - you may have to scroll up or down a bit.
SOTA is what it says it is and will not be deflected by those who want it to do something else to meet their whim. Basically they are appealing to encompass other schemes that they are not capable of establishing themselves. Why should SOTA corrupt itself just to accommodate those who are incapable of setting up their own parallel schemes.
Each to their own. It all depends on the individual where they drive or want to drive. Some people only like to drive short distances and walk short hikes - some like it the other way, some just aren’t bothered.
I don’t often keep tally of my traveling and hiking distances but in 2011 and 2012 I did, I drove 9168.7 miles (14755.59 km) and hiked 566.14 km and that was to activate only 70 summits plus several more that weren’t attempted because the weather was - well rubbish.
I drive these distances to get to these hills so I can climb the hills. Taking the radio to play SOTA is a bonus to me and the chasers.
The cost in money and time is up to each individual on how much they spend. I don’t mind spending money traveling all those miles to get to a hill I haven’t climbed - I do travel many miles to climb non-SOTA hills as well.
But as I said each to their own… Personally I can’t see the point in football supporters spending all that money to follow a football team full of greetin sissies - but each to their own.
Anyway, P150 - SOTA started out as P150 so it should be P150. So a few people made some errors and summits that don’t qualify sneaked in to the system - they are just trying to sort the errors. If the P100 gets kept in place does that mean GM can get the 1800 odd summits that are P100.
Just my pennies worth. Personally I think this has gone on way too long, the weather is lovely for this time of the year so why don’t you all go out and play radio instead of debating over something that is going to happen anyway - its like listening to school bairns arguing.
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10000:500. That’s the nearest, and I’ve squashed and stretched the figures to make the ratio as low as possible. Even going by time it’s a 20 minute drive
Yeah, I was going by time, as that is what was defined in the initial mention of ratios. I interpreted an approximately 20 minute drive and a 2 minute walk from your earlier post.
[quote=“M1EYP, post:120, topic:10669”]approximately 20 minute drive[/quote]On average it probably takes nearer half an hour, or forty minutes plus if they’re digging the road to Biggin Hill again (something they seem inordinately fond of doing…).
Distance-wise, next nearest summit’s a good hour’s drive at off-peak time, but the next nearest after that can probably be reached in slightly less time because most of the route is motorway. I could do most of the mainland G/SE summits in a day trip from home without too much trouble. With some of them I could even fairly easily do two or three in the same day. Any much further afield, and overnight stays start figuring…
73, Rick M0LEP
Aye, well when you’ve activated all the GM SOTA summits that you practically can, there’s a pile of HuMPs awaiting your presence Neil. Perhaps you’ll have given up carrying the radio by then.
Marilyn, HuMP, in fact any hill would do. I just can’t seem to get my backside into gear since being off for all those months - even a stroll along the sea front is a chore. But I will get there.
I have activated a few of the HuMPs around here in the past but only because I was crossing over them to go somewhere else. I enjoyed the walk and just happened to have a handheld with me. Grabbed a few chaser points at the same time.