What change in the Rules was that Mike?
I think that ârules to the 12m Challenge were re-writtenâ is a rather unfair and misleading way to summarise the decision to award many more certificates than originally intended due to the high participation level and enthusiasm of the activity. Would you have preferred it if we had awarded just two certificates as originally stated Mike?
Hope the details of the forthcoming 10m/6m Challenge are more to your liking at least. You should do well on 10m - look at the demo mode on the Database, you are clearly the man to beat on 28MHz.
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Exactly how I tried, but I found nothing specific to the constant 2000 [km^2].
Could you be so kind as to help me with it - if you remember where it could be?
Karel
Because you have no case, so you have no reply.
I am doing my job, Andy, I am trying to protect a P150 Award scheme with literally thousands of participants from a small but highly vocal minority that want to carve it down to something easier for them so that they can score more points with less effort. If that prompts you to make ill-mannered comments about me, so be it. I can bite, too, but I also have to administer the AUP so I cannot reply in the terms that your comments deserve.
Brian
Hello Erich,
Congratulations on getting your licence.
There have been a number of views expressed about the summit cull. Yes there is a stubborn resistance by some members of MT to consider alternative views and your comment about pushing people away is a good point and is likely to happen if a compromise of some sort is not reached.
I hope you have a great time on the radio whatever you do.
Cheers
Mike
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Exactly that. Im one the guys that had and still have a lot of problems with tendons, injuries etc (but DNA⌠had to beat nature)âŚ
The only option for this would be to use some data (numerical data, not someone opinion of the difficulty etc), climbing association data? national survey agencies? etc and then built a mathematical/computational model that give the points based on the input criteria.
As one that does computational models for spatial analysis for the whole of GB, I could even think that âsegregationâ or integrationâ with the built environment could take part in the point system. Far away for cities/villages⌠more points.
Best,
Tasos
Here I would like to highly disagree, Brian. What exactly is âeasierâ? There is no direct correlation between topographic prominence and effortlessness - based on experience, not on map reading (very happy to walk, run on skis or ride a bike and points to me does not matter too much).
Conversely, less known hills are often the most difficult to reach.
Karel
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At it again, Mike! There is a difference between considering alternate views and the automatic acceptance that you seem to think is your right. They have been considered, weighed - and rejected.
Brian
Well, wouldnât you agree that more summits make it easier - otherwise what are all the arguments about? 
Brian
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Unfortunately I couldn´t be active in the last months, therefore I got informed about the thread not until yesterday.
After reading the most of the articles, I arrived to the conclusion, that much statements and facts were given , many good factual arguments from experienced Ham´s for P100 (âŚand not only vocal minority⌠as announced here in the forum, iI think), and I took notice, that the decision for P150 in DM/OE/etc by the MT shall be final (or isnât it?).
T o tell the truth, from my point of view: that is not the right decision, either for SOTA nor for amateur radio in Europe, but I won´t add more arguments in this thread as said before.
At the end, all participants in SOTA (and so will I) has to accept the implementation.
What´s that supposed to mean for me?
I still will take part in SOTA as an activator , whenever it´s possible. But sadly, I will reduce my previous engagement in SOTA-activations here in DM/BW, because I can´t and I won´t drive hundreds of km only for collecting points.
I´ll be active in outdoor-radio furthermore (Garden, Hiking, Isle´s etc), if health will allow. It would be a great pleasure for me, if I´ll get response to my call´s from all friends and ham´s, that I met in so many qso´s here before, even if I can´t spend pointsâŚ.
Many 73 es cuagn!
Gerhard, DL4TO
Only in terms of consumed gasoline or diesel - IMHO youâre right here.
Karel
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To answer your questionâŚ
And what about the participants who finished in the top 25 in the world and received nothing?
11th in the World 2E0YYY contacts 2701, Multip 30, points 81030, No Certificate
22nd in the world MM0FMF contacts 480, Multip 31, poiints 14880, Certificate
And of course, if it had been left at just two certificates, you wouldnât have got one would you?
So what is the issue? Itâs not about the points, Itâs about the summits.
I am afraid the participants in this thread are trapped in a âdialogue of the deafâ. All arguments exposed make sense from the point of view of their author.
I would suggest to use a different perspective: what is SOTA for ?
Is it about having a âp150 schemeâ for the sake of it, or is it about having fun by combining outdoor activities and ham radio ?
I personally think option one is nonsense, but I understand many do not agree with this, for example when I read
If we accept for a moment the second option, then the absolute value of a summit prominence might be seen as an objective way to determine which summits are valid and which are not. But it does not make things âfairerâ in any way:
-
the repartition of the p150 summits is not the same everywhere on earth and some people will feel that others have some kind of advantage (summit density close to where they live, âsummit valueâ versus ease of access, etc.)
-
as we all know, the prominence of a summit has most of the time very little correlation with the actual âmeritâ of its activators
Of course there need to be criteria to decide whatâs in and whatâs out. But they could be used as guidelines instead of rules. Why make changes that would reduce the fun created by a situation that was accepted until now ? Why not accept in specific cases summits that are are not âp150â if the Association Manager and the MT agree that they present a sufficient interest (beauty of the site, long distance from other SOTA summits, etc.) ?
In summary, I suggest to try together to maximize the fun for activators and chasers instead of sticking to arbitrary rules that do not solve anything in this case, and to actually address the real issue which is the perceived âlack of fairnessâ, instead of avoiding it by hiding behind a âruleâ. Maybe, some time later, it might be reasonable to consider having some extra recognition for the activators of the summits that are more challenging, again, using reasonable guidelines.
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As Brian has stated, some parts of the UK including GW/NW are just as bad âŚTryfan, parts of Ogwen Valley some of the Rhinogs have interesting routes here in NW, not even considering Scotland. You donât need to go near the alps to get near to the same level of mountaineering.
You sound like my mother 
I am the awards administrator and the award rules were quite clear to me - a certificate for First Place and for Second Place Activator and Chaser in each Association and in the Worldwide Rankings. If you did not qualify in First or Second place then there was no award available.
Initially, there was not going to be any awards available other than the Worlwide Ranking First and Second as it was a âfunâ challenge but the view of other members of the Management Team took sway and I concurred with the majority view.
First G Activator G1INK
Second G Activator M1EYP
Third Activator 2E0YYY
First G Chaser G6LUZ
Second G Chaser G4OBK
16th G Chaser 2E0YYY
Barry GM4TOE
SOTA Awards Administrator
Dear Chris,
thank´s a lot for the lines, i will agree 100%.
Hopefully, this valuable contribution will not only categorized as a âvocal minorâ.
73, Gerhard
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Summits on the Air is an awards scheme based on a Prominence of 150 metres.
There is absolutely no reason why other schemes could not exist - âLVOA - Lovely Views on the Airâ for instance but that is not SOTA. I fail to understand why there is such a hang up because we try to remain true to the original concept of this award scheme. It does not stop anybody going up any hill they fancy and playing amateur radio, it simply says that we will administer a scheme which recognises a certain level of attainment. I go walking up my local hill quite regularly - it has absolutely stunning views but does not qualify for P150 - so what, it is a lovely walk and I even take my FT817 up there for the shear enjoyment of playing radio.
It has been stated elsewhere that there exist other excellent schemes which offer the parameters desired by those complaining about the Management Team attempting to bring all Associations within the P150 base rule so why is there the desire to change this award scheme into something it is not and cannot be?
Be happy with what is there and try to recognise that a very small group of VOLUNTEERS are attempting to fulfill the original concept of the founders. These people, whether full time employed or retired, put in significant hours just keeping SOTA running - I spend more than one full working day a week just on awards and merchandise let alone the time spent attempting to deal with the high levels of abuse directed to the Management Team, and therefore myself; others spend equivalent amounts of time undertaking other tasks. The ongoing abuse from a small, but vocal, minority will only result in the said volunteers walking away, and with them the technical skills to administer this award scheme.
Nobody forces you to take part in SOTA - or any other award programme like IOTA - so stop trying to modify it to suit your own self interest. If you enjoy it take part, if you like going into the hills and playing radio but donât like SOTA rules or administration that is your choice; enjoy the hills but donât take part in SOTA.
Barry GM4TOE
SOTA Awards Administrator
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Hello Brian,
I was not âAt itâ. I was trying to encourage compromise and I was pleased to see someone who got their licence last September, Erich, expressing a view and wishing him well. There have been a lot of posts here from well seasoned activators/climbers who have been around for a long time who never normally post anything but have done so now; message there somewhere I think?
Mike
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Why not look upon this as an opportunity for a (large) expansion of GMA (which will presumably pick up the deleted P<150 summits).
If Web site / software authors could provide a good spotting resource combined from both sources any pain will be lessened.
73, Simon
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