In reply to G4AFI:
Just curious - is the design of the ATS-4 and MTR basically the same,
with the MTR only having 2 bands and single 7-seg display ?
No, it’s more a development of the ATS-3A and 3B with changes to solve obsolete parts problems. The ATS-4 was bigger and the big display was an attempt to allow data modes without a PC.
Colin G8TMV
(ATS-3B builder/owner)
In reply to G4AFI:
In reply to G4ISJ:
Great video Pete and glad to be included in your log for the first
outing of your MTR. What luck to work someone else with a MTR! Nice to
see the top of G/CE-001 as I hope to activate this one myself on 22nd
June. That fence is very handy.I have downloaded the MTR manual. It looks to be a real neat rig, I
enjoyed looking at the schematic. I wonder if you had any soldering
issues building the MTR ?73s
Andrew, G4AFI
Hi Andrew,
Nice to work you and yes it was a surprise to work another MTR - he was almost the first out of the pileup, only beaten by the Roy’s distinctive call!
I had no trouble soldering, you just need a very fine tipped iron. The processor and DDS chips are so fine pitched I just ran the iron across them, then dab across them with solder wick to lift off the solder bridges between the pins.
I learnt a lot about SMDs building the ATS4 
The activation zone on Cleeve is HUGE. That fence is is right by the trigpoint. The car park is actually in the AZ, but I like to at least get a bit of a walk first.
Pete
In reply to G8TMV:
In reply to G4AFI:
Just curious - is the design of the ATS-4 and MTR basically the
same,
with the MTR only having 2 bands and single 7-seg display ?No, it’s more a development of the ATS-3A and 3B with changes to solve
obsolete parts problems. The ATS-4 was bigger and the big display was
an attempt to allow data modes without a PC.
If you check out the schematics for the ATS4 and MTR the TRX sections are virtually identical. The main difference is the ref oscillator for the DDS runs at 40Mhz on the TR and 60 Mhz on the ATS4, that’s why the ATS4 can run up to 15metres.
The processors and firmware are quite different,obviously to accommodate the different displays and UI.
There are some really nice features of the MTR which I wish were implemented on the ATS4, namely the better keyer memory handling, and the use of abbreviated digits when in DFE mode.
I’ll do a side by side comparison video some day.
72 Pete
In reply to G3XQE:
In reply to G4ISJ:
Hi Pete;Thanks for the video on the new MTR, glad to work you on the first
outing.
73 de Ken G3XQE
Ken, good to work you. I often hear you when we’re both chasing the same activator!
If you ever hear me it will be when using my shack rig which is the ATS4!
Just managed 500 chaser points to date with it and I seem to hear most of the stations you do although I am looking forward to getting my KX3
72 Pete
In reply to G4ISJ:
Hi Pete;
Yes I have heard you in the mele on 40m, it always seems a pity to me that we are like ships passing in the night and never get chance to chat.
I am afraid that hearing the stations I hear is not an indication of a good rx, my receive performance is limited not by the rx but the lack of antenna real estate and suburban noise levels. I compensate for this by using an FT2000 with it’s continuously variable band width to get the optimum signal to noise ratio but there is a limit as below 200hz bandwidth on CW the noise pops make the filters ring.
I wish you luck with the KX3, it looks good and if it is anywhere near as good as the K2 and K3 you should be very happy.
I look forward to working you out on the hills with the new MT in the not too distant future.
73 de Ken G3XQE
In reply to G3XQE:
The TS-570 has audio DSP filtering. Nowhere near as good as IF DSP but as Mr. Zappa said “you are what you is” and AF DSP is what it is. The auto notch is good but the noise reduction leaves a lot to be desired. Apart from the CW DSP filtering. That emphsises the edges of the keying which my 270Hz xtal filter tends to mush up a lot. The result is that the DSP filter on a wide b/w is often an easy to copy signal than through the narrow filter even though there may be other noises present. You may want to try something like that with all the shiny features the FT-2000 offers, which, TBH, blow the 570 out of the water.
The other idea which can help is to connect the audio to your PC and use programs like Spectran to display the CW visually. It takes some effort to learn to read the trace but it may help reinforce what you are actually hearing.
Andy
MM0FMF
In reply to MM0FMF:
Hi Andy;
Thanks for your comments.
Yes, I agree with you about the wider bandwidth making reading the cw easier, my normal choice would be Hz but I choose to reduce to 200Hz because unfortunately we have particularly on 40m some pretty wicked pile ups, always with tail enders and always with stations calling when they can’t hear the activator go back to a calling station.
Most chaser activity is not dead zero beat with the activator resulting in a spread of signals around the activators frequency, this is often deliberate as as an activator would find it almost impossible to pick out a call sign in a pile up if al the signals had the same tone.
The chasers being most times on 40m, very considerably stronger than the activator who is down in the noise. With the very sharp I.F. dsp filters in the FT2000 this enables me too most times cut out the tail enders and those that insist on calling blind and enable me to concentrate on listening for my call sign coming back from the activator,
One of the disadvantages I have found with I.F. dsp filtering in my case is that the nature of my noise is very naroow impulses which tend to sound like frying, the amplitude of theses pulse tends to be a lot of the time with very weak signals higher than the wanted signal, this results in the sampling A to D converting at that instant of time the pulse peak amplitude rather than the wanted signal, this results in an effect that sounds as if the wanted signal has had holes punched in the audio spectrum.
While I agree with you that monitoring the wanted signal on a spectrum analyser may help in reinforcing a weak signal in and out of the noise, I doubt without some considerable long mental programming that I would be able to obtain my reading of weak stations in the noise most times send at some 25 wpm and often faster.
There is also another mental filter that you have not mentioned which is very powerful, that is the ability to recognise your own and others callsigns in the noise and general back ground. This is very powerfull because it enables you to recognise your call sign by the rhythm even if bits of characters are missing.
I often sit doing something on the computer while the rig is on or around 7 032 with the headphones connected and lying on the desk and not consciously decoding the back ground cw stream coming to me at low levels when all of a sudden well known call signs like G4SSH just jump into my head and I then know that there is a new activation awaiting my attention that I have missed because I have not been consciously listening or monitoring Sotawatch.
This is obviously well know to ex commercial operators like Roy who spent many hours on radio watch and would not continuosly conciously decode the steady stream of traffic.
I appologise to those that may be offended by this long post which has gone a bit off topic but I feel that Sota is an activity that proves that CW is not redundant even if there are better ways of moving large amounts of information in the commercial world. I believe that Sota should actively encourage activators to progress from qualifying a summit with four contacts on an FM hand held to being heard by and chased by a wider audience.
73 de Ken G3XQE (closing down unintentional activation of CW soap box)
In reply to G3XQE:
Ken, I think you raise some very good points in your post. The MTR is a CW rig and seems to have very capable (if not adjustable) filtering, so your post is relevant I think.
I gave my shiny new MTR a test run yesterday evening. I tried calling CQ for a while on 20m, but the Field Day contesters had obviously scared the non contesters off to a different band! Well, if you can’t beat 'em, join 'em - I worked four contest stations. The contacts were quickfire, but it certainly proved my MTR is working and that the receiver is excellent! I haven’t got much experience with high end receivers - I have only used very simple rigs, but the MTR is amazing to me, it seems so selective.
My friend has an FT2000 and I am the first one to use it on CW. I will have to read the manual I think, I’ve tried playing with the various controls, but I still prefer to use the filter in my head! Maybe it’s because of 15 years of listening to my MFJ8100 regen!
I agree that CW is not redundant - I planned a 2 day expedition a few years ago in the Lake District to include Great Gable, Kirk Fell and Pillar. My expedition was a failure due to a number of reasons, but I remember packing all manner of rigs and batteries just to make sure I could at least qualify all the summits. With my MTR, a couple of PP3s and a dipole, it would be very easy to qualify the summits - all because I am now able to do CW.
73
Colin
M0CGH
MTR #131
In reply to M0CGH:
Hi Colin;
Congratulations on getting the MTR going especially with all those surface mount components, I think I would have to invest more than the cost of the kit in aids just to be able to see the aiming point for the soldering iron these days.
There is nothing like the feeling of pleasure in operating something that you have built yourself. This is something that is missing from the training of new radio amateurs these days.
From the chasing perspective of someone who lives well outside the vertical fm range of most of the UK summits, my only possibility of working them from home is on HF and this is most reliably achieved on CW.
I am therefore grateful to all those who activate on HF whether on phone or cw or a mixture of both.
As regards the FT2000 well when I first got mine out of the box and, plugged it in and stated listening, I thought I had bought an expensive lemon but a trawl through the manual and the configuration setting soon started to sort this out.
Yaesu now have better default settings but when I bought mine (Pre PEP 2000)this was not the case.
I often open up the bandwith on CW and just listen to everything that passes by whilst doing something else and this also gives pleasure.
Just one point of interest which you probably cannot answer yet, you mention using the MTR with a PP3, and that had me wondering if the PP3 had sufficiently low internal resistance when running several watts of output or wether it would be necessary to run two or more in parallel???
73 de Ken G3XQE
In reply to G3XQE:
Ken, I work in telecoms equipment repair, so I have no excuses really when it comes to soldering SMD’s! I don’t populate boards usually though, it’s normally just a single component change, usually and 0603 size 250mA or 500mA fuse used on the drain side of the LNA FETs.
I’m pretty short sighted, so my natural focal point is about 12 inches from my face - this gives me excellent vision for small devices! I can read all the component markings without any aids.
I struggled a little bit soldering the processor, it is an SSOP28 package device. If I was to do it again though, I’d be able to do it easily.
Nearly all the radios I use have been built by me, it doesn’t feel special any more, but yes, the first contacts with home built equipment felt very good indeed! The best feeling was crossing the Atlantic, working N1WPU in Maine running about 300mW from my RockMite 20!
My goal for the future is to have a QSO with a US station from a SOTA summit using QRP or QRPp.
You can see my MTR soldering job at the following link -
Regarding power sources, I haven’t really thought this through yet. I will probably start off by using 8 off AA NiMH’s (2000mAh), with a PP3 for back up. I keep thinking about investing in some LiPo’s or similar, we have a local model shop which I keep meaning to investigate.
73
Colin
In reply to M0CGH:
To power my ATS-3B I have a small 12v Lion battery pack designed for running a CCTV camera. A quick look on Ebay turned up item 170851435675 as being very similar.
Colin G8TMV
In reply to M0CGH:
Hi Colin;
Fabulous signal here in Coventry today from the new MTR on G/NP-028, John G4LGX/P on G/NP-028 was only just workable from here and you were as strong as G4BLH who worked you just after me. Perhaps you could let me know what antenna you were using.
I had a look at your photo of the completed board, the soldering looked very good. I haven’t built anything yet with surface mount components so would be interested to know what soldering iron you used with what sized bit, also what solder did you use ??
Having now christened the new rig on a summit, I trust that you are happy with the performance ??
73 and GL de Ken G3XQE
In reply to G3XQE:
Thanks for the QSO Ken - I still managed to mess up sending your call!
My antenna was the usual scrappy multilink dipole on my 7m fishing pole, dipole centre stops about 1m down from the top. The ends of the dipole were about 50cms above the ground - inverted vee style. I really must build a new SOTA dipole, with RG-316 instead of RG-174. My original dipole has served me well but the wire is looking a bit tired in places.
I used a JBC iron to build the MTR - the handpiece is about as thick as a marker pen, very nice and nimble - great to get in amongst components for rework etc.
http://www.jbctools.com/cd-b-general-compact-soldering-station-product-505.html
I used a very fine bit (think sewing needle!), but a small chisel bit is equally as effective. I soldered the pins on the chip one by one, but some people just tack the chips in place at the corners and then swamp all the pins with lots of solder, using wick to remove the excess. I haven’t tried that method, but it is supposed to work quite well.
The kit came with solder and wick supplied. The solder was quite fine, but not the finest I’ve seen. In reality the solder supplied was quite appropriate.
I am really pleased with the MTR, the receiver seems to be very selective - I don’t think I’ve ever worked on 40m without QRM - I did today!
I heard Rich N4EX calling on 20m, I’m not sure if he was calling me, I think it was too early in the day because I don’t think Rich was hearing me 
I was running with about 11V today from 8 AA’s, my meter was showing about 4 watts on 40m. I intend to do some tweaking this week to try and up the power a bit.
73
Colin
M0CGH
I know I shouldn’t - but…
Steve Weber has just announced that he is hoping to have another batch of MTR kits in about 8 weeks time.
If you’re interested in a real backpackers CW radio with outstanding performance, in an Altoids tin, then this is the one to go for.
The best $100 you can spend (until he does another run of ATS4s!).
They will sell out in one day, so to be in with a chance you really need to subscribe to the AT_Sprint Yahoo group and watch closely…
Hopefully I haven’t just done myself out of another one!
Pete
Steven Weber steve.kd1jv@gmail.com via yahoogroups.com
3:14 AM 05/12/12
to AT_Sprint
Just to let every one know I got the ball rolling on getting a custom MTR
case made by Ten-Tec. It will be about 8 weeks before they are ready, so
looks like the end of January. I’ll try to have more MTR kits ready about
that time too.
The price for just a case will be $20 plus a little for postage. The top
will be painted and silk screened. I decided on blue for the color. The
bottom piece will be left unfinished aluminum, which should be a decent
contrast to the blue, but you can paint it if you like. The box will be
about the size of an Altoids tin, but a tad taller at 1.1".
There will be enough space inside the case to install a 9V radio battery if
you like. However, you’ll need to add an on/off switch and you’ll have to
make the hole for that yourself.
72, Steve KD1JV
ATSprint members,
Steve is taking orders now for the MTR.
Get over to the group now and check your email.
My order is in!
Pete
In reply to G4ISJ:
Hi Pete,
My silly email pusher seems to have a delay 
I did order within 40 mins of the time stamp of Steven '
s message, so hopefully I’m in with a chance.
73, Colin
In reply to G4ISJ:
Thanks very much for posting this info Pete!
73,
Barry N1EU
In reply to G4ISJ:
Thanks Pete. I hope my order timed at 07:15 was early enough. It will be a nice sibling to my PFR-3.
Interesting that the timing of the availability announcement at 05:55 UTC would have favoured us Europeans and the US West Coast night owls.
Fingers crossed…
73 Marc G0AZS