10m SSB was NOT a nice place yesterday!
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What happens if you tell the HB9 heās not in the log and please QSY? Fifty years ago, there used to be a DX list operation on 20, run by W7PHO. If you got out of line, heād tell you youāre no longer on the list and go watch TV.
Elliott, K6EL
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Excellent! The only thing I would add is that if you can hear the DL1 still in there calling away then donāt abandon him with NIL, even in the face of continuing QRM.
Itās your pile up and it is your responsibility to control it! Make it absolutely clear that you will not continue until you have that DL1 in the log. You will earn respect for sticking with the DL1 and everyone else in the pileup will be able to see what a plonker the guy calling out of turn really is!
On DXpeditions I have been known to stop the pileup for several minutes to complete a partial in the face of concerted QRM.
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An HB9 will probably comply. Other - how shall I put it - more excitable nationalities will more likely simply resort to even more intrusive DQRM. Generally I find that lecturing the pileup or individual callers is counterproductive.
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Itās a huge expanse of band though - so easy to get out of the way and in a quieter spot around 28.300 or 28.800MHz. Failing that, change mode to FM - or CW or FT4.
Iām not experiencing any problems - but I do have the enhanced flexibility of being able to do several modes. If i get fed up on any mode I simply switch to a different one!
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I would like to believe that this is a symptom of the incredible propagation that we have had lately. As we cast our QRP nets further and wider, weāre bound to catch some fish that we want to throw backā¦and nothing attracts a crowd like a crowd.
I understand the frustration, this happened to me last week where I heard an S2s in the pileup. Called S2S? and got a EU station that wasnāt on a summit. Good DX that doesnāt happen during a solar minimum.
When the pileup gets thick and I canāt make out any calls, I call s2s? to see if there is an S2S in the pileup. If I get a call(s) back that doesnāt start with ās2s deā, then I called s2s? again. Usually, two or three s2s? is enough to cause the impatient to leave and respectful to be silent. After silenceā¦no S2S, then I call āOK QRZā? and itās a little more manageable. Any feedback from activators on this approach?
My CW is work in progress, but I was able to move a chaser to an adjacent frequency by calling āQRM QSY 064ā and they followed over to complete the contact.
Mike
DE VE7ESE
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Donāt be discouraged! I had a similar experience to Andy a few weeks ago, which was very annoying, but thankfully (at least for me) it is the exception rather than the rule! Perhaps this is the downside of hf conditions being particularly good at the moment. Not that itās an excuse for poor operating of course!
Iām already looking forward to a S2S QSO using CW! 
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I want to endorse what John and Matthew said. Andyās bad experience is the exception and should not put off anyone learning Morse. @MM0FMF also said the worst was on 20m, a band I eschew on most activations because I find it a bit of a bear pit. Iāve activated for years mainly on 30m where I find the CW chasers much more civilized. My recent experience of 10m CW has been very good and I have several times (on the 10m Challenge thread) said how good the Dx chasers (in N/A and elsewhere) were, e.g. waiting their turn, slowing to my sending speed.
Most of us, most of the time, have pileups that go reasonably well. There can be frustration for activator and chasers [as per my post above] when too many chasers send their callsigns at once. Thatās nobodyās fault unless and until a bully repeatedly sends his callsign (as Andy described).
With experience learnt āon the jobā the activator can manage that situation to speed up IDāing one callsign among the crowd.
We discussed split (frequency) operation. From what I read few SOTA activators currently use it but if these experiences become more frequent, it might be the only way to cope with bullies (except when they tx over the activator on the activatorās frequency - which I would call jamming).
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The best words Iāve heard about split operation came from Victor GI4ONL. He said DXers know what UP or UP1 means but many SOTA chasers will not have a clue. Heās right, the few occasions I have used split I have always heard some chasers calling on my TX. Why? Perhaps they donāt know what UP means or they are not listening to what is sent.
It could be an issue with using code readers. Normally people using them are as obvious as a kick in the family jewels because the flow is wrong/jerky etc. I donāt mind, Iāll happily work them but itās better if you use one to wait till the manic state of the pileup has diminished.
What annoyed me about yesterday was that Iād be sending the report and hand it back and when I was listening for my report that bloody HB9 would start sending his call over the top of the info I wanted to hear. Thatās just total insanity because it is going to slow down me working him (itās always a man) if I have to keep asking for repeats from another station.
Iāve emailed stations that do this in the past. I mailed one guy who did similar, calling out of turn, calling over the top of others, continuously calling. His reply was priceless āSorry I could not hear what you were sending a lot of the timeā. Why the figgy pudding was he transmitting if he couldnāt hear the ādxā? Heāll remain anonymous but heās a respected DXer and member of the ham community.
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Split is certainly the way to go to avoid these people who are disrupting our hobby. It was the only way in overcoming the incompetent when I was in Tenerife last month and I found going split when it was bad very successful. This was after I went to SSB in disgust because of it, before returning later to CW using split. I didnāt listen to my own frequency when I did but I was told by a very experieinced chaser who worked me that a few of the non-coherent were still calling on my TX frequency making it harder for the chasers to hear me.
It was worst when I started up on 28044, (The FF POTA crowd - many CW novices - who need to walk before they can run). In future, if needs must, I will operate split - 1 up, announce it every QSO and identify every 2-3 QSOs at least, which some SOTA activators are failing to do unfortunately.
73 Phil G4OBK
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Another possibility is they did both but donāt know how to put their rig in split mode. I certainly didnāt until yesterday until after reading your post.
BTW: You referred to your using the RIT as the poor manās split mode ā¦ but reading the KX2 UM, the KX2 split mode seems geared towards you being the chaser for a dx station/activator whoās using split frequencies. If you are the one owning the pileup, I canāt see how split mode has any advantages over simply using the RIT [unless you want to use that fancy feature that allows you to monitor both frequencies, one in each ear].
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Advantage of KX2 split over RIT for the activator is you get to use the big VFO knob to tune around instead of the small RIT knob, disadvantage is you donāt get the delta frequency display. Other than that I think you just use whichever you prefer 
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Before the advent of modern synthesised rigs radios usually only had a single VFO and RIT (for the DX)/XIT (for the chasers) was the only way to go into split mode. These rigs typically only permitted 10kHz maximum offset and that therefore became the accepted limit of split operation.
More modern radios typically have two VFOs and some even sport dual receivers, with the ability to listen on both frequencies simultaneously. So these days itās probably better to use the separate VFOs for split operation but RIT/XIT works fine in most cases.
Whilst split operation should seldom be necessary for SOTA activations I do think that knowing how to set up the rig to use split, as activator or chaser, is a necessary skill these days.
This is a good point - ergonomics. Every rig is different so itās worth experimenting and settling on a way of operating split that works for you.
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I experience some of the same rudeness, but especially so on 10m. I suspect the 10m Challenge is at the root of it.
I hope the perps will desist after the turn of the year, and that it isnāt becoming ingrained.
73,
Andy, N4LAG
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Maybe Iām a little tiny bit - or a lot - to blame for this. I have repeatedly recommended SOTA chasing as a motivating training activity for people learning CW (only surpassed in effectiveness by SOTA activating on CW!). I have encouraged people not to wait until they feel they are āgood enoughā, but to actually use the operating as their practice method. I am aware that some more experienced ops have a dim view of such advice.
Anyway, whether Iāve contributed to it or not, the fact is that take-up of CW, and activity on the bands by CW-rookies, is particularly strong within SOTA. As has been said, use of split will certainly thin down the pile-up, but probably not the QRM on the activatorās frequency!
At risk of repeating myself, thereās plenty of proven-effective ways for the activator to overcome this issue:
- Use less popular (12m, 17m) or more spacious (10m, 15m) bands.
- Use a variety of modes in each activation.
- Use QRP.
- QSY from time-to-time.
- QRX from time-to-time.
If you insist on operating on 20m/40m CW/SSB as an activator, then simply āsharpen your toolsā and become a better operator. The best can control any pile-up - using some of the techniques mentioned above, and others.
<< IRONY ALERT >>
The least effective technique is banging on about it on tāinternetā¦
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Well this āexperienced opā (57 years, 500k QSOs, most on CW) is all in favour of encouraging ārookieā ops to get on the air and improve their CW and I applaud your efforts. SOTA chasing is an ideal way of honing ones operating skills before, perhaps, entering the fray of a big DXpedition pileup.
But there is a difference between the inexperienced rookie and the deliberate calling out of turn that has become so endemic in recent times. The perpetrators are not for the most part rookie ops.
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As a CW beginner I try to not cause too much ruckus, I might not understand all the subtleties of Morse abbreviations, but I strive to behave on this mode like I once did on SSB.
I must add that sometimes even activators are a bit too eager to get the prized S2S contact, there are repeated offenders, even right now as Iām writing this message, sending long strings of ā/Pā over the exchanges of established QSOs and theyāre not beginners, they definitely know what theyāre doing. Time on summit is precious but respecting fellow activators and chasers should be a given.
Hopefully I wonāt offend anyone, as Tom says thereās not much point in ranting online, as it wonāt change anything, just m2c.
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Yes, Iāve noticed that too. Very odd. Perhaps SOTA has got too popular, when it was a new and very much a minority thing that most people had never heard of it could be calm and relaxed. Now most hams have heard of it and it is becoming mainstream, more chasers means more competition for those precious points, and as we know, when want morphs into NEED rational behaviour wanes, and hysteria can be infectious.
I am finding an almost delicious irony in this thread. I have been told many times that besides its undoubted technical advantages CW is more gentlemanly, that you get a better class of operators on the key. If you look on the various ham social platforms, the Zed, eham etc, its not hard to find posts from operators who actually look down on phone operation and claim elite status for CW, yet here we are discussing bad behaviour on CW. Not just bad behaviour but bad behaviour from people we would expect better behaviour from.
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You missed the post where I said I donāt do 40m SSB any more due to the madness and just check into the 40m WAB net.
And thereās this post too:
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