Lack of Phonetics in SOTA QSO

Well there’s never a better time to start using the proper phonetics than now. :wink:

1 Like

I just knew it… you ARE a member of the Band Police! :rofl:

4 Likes

Yes, and when they ask for my call sign I give them Brian’s :slight_smile:

3 Likes

I never had the choice, in those days the suffixes were issued to us.

Anyway, why all this talk about “correct” phonetics. The NATO phonetics are recommended, they are not mandatory, the powers that be did not make them a requirement of the licence conditions so they did not see them as “correct”. That means that that use of the NATO phonetics is optional, and fussing over people who do not use them is infringing on their personal freedom as given under the terms of the licence. My attitude is that we should all know the NATO phonetics (even if not the received pronounciation) for the sake of inter-operability if ever needed, but should be allowed to get on with whatever works for us.

3 Likes

But it’s not working a lot of the time Brian.

The hobby is communication… so I will make up my own phonetics to confuse non-native English speakers and thus make the communication less effective. Yup, that sounds a good reason to keep doing your own thing.

2 Likes

Hopefully you’re not advocating that amateurs start using the IMO English respelling or ITU 2007 versions for numbers?

Otherwise I agree that a standard pronunciation is useful. I’m used to the ICAO 2008/FAA/NATO version.

Golf six pahpah juliett zooloo

1 Like

All very interesting. I was always confused by the NATO pronunciation for “4” being written as “fower”… should the “OW” be OW as in ROW (your boat) or OW as in OUCH!
After checking on Wikipedia it seems to be the latter, but it always seemed a bit of an oversight to me. Is it just me…?
I’ve seen different recommended versions too.
Victor Kilo Too Sierra Tango Golf :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:

2 Likes

Many if not all of us have experienced contacts where the NATO phonetics did not work but alternatives did. I think that the extra syllables in country or state names (zanzibar, america) make it possible for operators to sort of reconstitute a partially heard phonetic. Thats the way it seems to work, anyway.

2 Likes

The pronunciation in English is something quite confusing for a foreigner, as it seems nearly impossible to know how to pronnounce a word you see written on text until you hear it spoken out to someone. And sometimes, even then it’s not 100% clear and consistent.
For instance, H = Hotel: the h in English is pronnounced like in have or heaven, but it’s not pronnounced at all in latin languages like Italian, French, Portuguese and Spanish.
Then the emphasis goes on which sylable, Ho or tel?
Some people make the emphasis on Ho while some others on tel.
In latin languages Hotel is pronnouned Otel, putting the emphasis on tel, not on O. The O is pronnounced like the O in Oscar, not like the O in Ocean.
The vowels are not always pronnounced the same.
In U = Uniform, the English pronnunciation of U in this case is like in Use, but Spanish and Italians, for instance pronnounce the U like in put.
Then the emphasis on which syllable? In English it goes on the U, in Spanish, for instance, the word Uniforme gets the emphasis on the syllable for.
There are so many differences that it’s really easy having different pronunciations.
However, I would say we are doing a pretty good job with very few comprehension issues.
73,

Guru

5 Likes

One time when I was in Martinique (FM5JC) a station replay to me by
Fox Mike Five Jesus Christ :rofl: :joy:
and I told him no ! Fox Mike Five Julius Caesar :upside_down_face:
73, Eric

8 Likes

Yes, I remember missing the one and only possible contact outside uk during VHF Field day on 70cm. The other station (an ON IIRC) was right on the noise and I just couldn’t get his Locator. He kept repeating the same phonetic, but neither I nor the logger could make it out. Using an alternative might just have helped, before he sank into the noise.
Having a standard system is the best starting point, but sometimes you have to try something different…

7 Likes

Guru,
The pronunciation is all prescribed here;-

It is/was the only phoenetic alphabet I ever heard used. Until I became a ham.
David

3 Likes

Hi David,
The pronunciation is prescribed there but it’s done for an English speaking person.
For a Spanish, Italian, French or Portuguese speaking person, writing the pronunciation of C = Charlie as CHAR-LEE is not valid. The way we would pronnounce LEE is not the way you pronnounce it, because your way to pronnounce E sounds like the way we pronnounce I.
The 5 vowels are different in English or latin languages:
A: you say what we would write as EI, while we always pronnounce A like in BAT.
E: you say it what we say and write as I, while we always pronnounce E as in BET.
I: you say what we would write as AI, while we always pronnounce I as in BIT.
O: you say what we would write as OU (not in French, as OU in French sounds like our U in PUT), while we always pronnounce O as in OSCAR.
U: you say what we would write as IU, while we always pronnounce U as in PUT.

The way we write what you pronnounce as LEE is LI, so Charlie would have to be prescribed as CHAR-LI; INDIA would have to be IN-DIA, not IN-DEE-AH and so on…

73,

Guru

6 Likes

This is how the phonic pronunciation would have to be prescribed for a Spanish speaking person to know how to correctly pronounce the NATO phonetic in English.


The emphasis must be put on the syllable in bold.

Of course this is no sense for an English speaking person not knowing how Spanish pronunciation is, but it’s exactly the same no sense as the current phonic pronunciation in that wikipedia table is for a Spanish speaking person not knowing how English pronunciation is.

And I’m now only speaking about spanish language. Guess what it must be for the rest of the languages spoken in the World. I even heard there are some syllables in the NATO phonetic alphabet which can’t be pronounced by the Japaneese people because they don’t have such sounds in their own language and they don’t know how to produce it.
However, bearing all this in mind, I think we, hams, are doing it amazinlgy well.
73,

Guru

6 Likes

Guru

I was trying to find a Spanish pronunciation guide to the NATO alphabet - but you beat me to it.

David

2 Likes

And mine was DIY.

2 Likes

When tired on a mountain rescue callout, where I’ve been using a VHF radio for a while, I’ve finished speaking on a mobile phone call by saying “over”… the other person invariably laughs their head off.

3 Likes

This reminds me when I was speaking on the phone with one of my customers at work and almost finished my sentence with QSL?
Thanks God that I cut myself in time!
73,

Guru

4 Likes

A few decades ago I spent a fortnight living with a French family on an exchange. At the end of the trip I travelled back to the UK with their school. The only English I spoke before arriving home was to buy a train ticket from London. At home I went upstairs to write a thank you letter to the French family, came downstairs and told my mum in French that I was just going out to post it. Sadly I think I would struggle to be as fluent now. Use it or lose it!

4 Likes

Hi Guru, I have done that numerous time, got to watch when talking :grinning:

Cheers- Geoff vk3sq

2 Likes