Kite-lifted long wire antenna operation (Part 1)

For fixed installations, is it not normal practice to use a lightning arrestor on the coax before entering the shack? Wouldn’t this serve the purpose of bleeding static?

I’d be nervous about having any antenna up permanently without some form of grounding.

Granted that I wouldn’t bother for a portable operation on a SOTA summit (pounding a copper ground rod into the ground on a SOTA summit could cause some problems)…in fact, I don’t know of anybody that grounds their dipole when on a SOTA summit.

2 Likes

Quick anecdote of the most stupid, idiotic & dangerous thing that I ever did on a SOTA summit:-

I forget which summit it was but in the very early days when I had only just got my licence & I didn’t really know what I was doing.

I did a VHF SOTA activation & while operating I became aware of a constant & pretty regular “click-click-click-click” sound on the radio.

Seeing some very dark clouds coming in I disconnected the radio in a hurry & called the activation to a premature end. This was the only time I have ever deliberately pulled the plug & left people hanging while I’ve still got chasers calling me.

To my alarm, the clicking sound continued after I had shut off the radio & disconnected to coax!

I panicked & pulled the peg from the guy rope & let the mast fall to the ground. The clicking stopped.

I hastily packed everything away & literally ran down the hill as it started chucking with rain. I turned around & looked back only to see a bolt of lightning, probably not far from where I was.

Lessons learnt:-

  • Always know the weather report so you don’t get caught out.

  • “Small” VHF antennas can pick up static too!

  • Don’t take stupid risks. No SOTA activation is worth getting yourself killed.

  • Don’t set up a radio connected to a “lightning rod” on top of a hill if there’s any risk of a thunderstorm!

Like I said, I was a blithering teenage idiot at the time…I wouldn’t let myself get into that situation now. “Older & wiser” as they say!

4 Likes

So, if the clicking was not coming from the radio, what do you think was making the clicking sounds?

Here’s a possibility (“upward streamers”)
https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/blogs/tim-blair/click-before-the-storm/news-story/534d237b1a3fdaaa70e3ec52d10fd4b2

As I understand it, the huge negative charge (excess electrons) in the cloud and its underside sets up a huge electric field [cloud-to-cloud or cloud-to-ground] which drives free electrons in the ground (buildings, etc) below the surface. Then an invisible plume of positively-charged air (i.e. electron deficit) [presumably the upward streamer or streamers] eventually connects with the negatively-charge region going down.

It’s probably a bit more complicated that this as lightning strikes usually take a zigzag path to ground.

1 Like

I use UNUNs on my verticals. In Minnesota, in winter, humidity can be very low and wind and wind driven snow can build up a charge. The UNUNs bleed it away.

The challenge of finding a good enough ground on a rocky summit might make this less effect.

73
CARL WB0CFF

2 Likes

It sounded like it was coming from the mast. I’m not sure if the plug on the coax cable was sparking.

The fact that it stopped when I laid the mast down & the fact that there was a lightning strike not far from where I had been (with virtually no delay in the rumble of thunder associated with it, so it wasn’t far away) makes me think that it was a very close call!

2 Likes

ah the old clansman 320 - have a couple - bomb proof well , pretty much EMP proof , i think the spec called for them to be able to take a couple hundred volts up the input socket - so maybe one of the better radios to use for kites - and a great tuner !! - just bloody heavy - not ideal for searching as the switches play havoc with your fingers - and no LSB unless you mod them - and i know from experience NOT easy beasts to work on - but if you get a "good un " …

1 Like

had antennas up for 40 years - no grounding in the main - had some near strikes - not lost a radio yet - if concerned just unplug but make sure the patch lead is not lying on the bench nearby !! as a friend of mine lost a radio to a strike tracking across some 18 inches of desk - he was away on holiday at the time - lucky he did not lose the house!! - RIP 1 FDK Multi

2 Likes

I know this is an old thread but I recently activated another summit with a kite antenna, which was also filmed & is now on my YouTube channel if you wish to take a look.

This was filmed on 9th November 2022 on Coity Mountain in Wales (GW/SW-012):-

Very similar setup to before but I did make a few tweaks:-

  • Longer wire (EFHW cut for 40m)

  • Different kite which doesn’t have the rigid struts in it, so actually folds up smaller & can stuff into a backpack (easier to carry) BUT has more pulling power. The kites manufacturer recommends around 100kg breaking strength on the kite line, which meant that I had to up-rate the antenna wire. I used DX-50 wire from DX Commander here in the UK, which apparently has a breaking strength of 135kg.

  • I used two stakes in the ground to account for more pull from the larger kite & give a bit of redundancy…I think this might have been a bit over-zealous though.

5 Likes

Thanks James for sharing the video … great to have a S2S with you when you were using the kite antenna. It’s always nice to see what equipment others are using for SOTA. And it’s interesting to hear how my signal and audio is like on the other end!

73 Martin, OE5REO

1 Like

Hi James @M0GQC,

I’ve decided to switch to your method and use the antenna wire as the kite flying cord. Since watching your video I’ve got 22m of DX50 Kevlar wire and a 49:1 UnUn for my 40m EFHW.

I tried it as a low-angle sloper to an upstairs window in the house and with my AA-35 measured a lovely SWR dip (minimum under 1:1.2 at ~6260kHz) and I’m ready to trim the wire length to move the resonant frequency up to the CW section of 40m (which should be ~20.7m long).

The weather’s been awful for weeks now (heavy rain or dry but strong winds) so while I’ve waiting for a break in the weather, I thought I’ll ask you a couple of questions:

  1. You had a ‘belt and braces’ approach with the Kevlar wire and a separate ‘safety’ nylon cord for flying the kite. Has the DX50 wire been a problem, e.g. broken or damaged? I intended to use only the DX50. The SOTAbeams kite I have is a sled type with parafoil (so it has no frame) and remains rigid only as long as it has a drag force (e.g. due to the tethered cord/wire). If it becomes detached (with no cord dragging on the ground), it collapses and falls (although a strong wind would blow it along the ground). Well, that’s the theory anyway.
  2. For your 40m EFHW it looks (from the video) that you have about 10m of nylon cord above the top end of the DX50. Is that to get the kite higher (than with the antenna wire alone) to where the wind flow is less turbulent?

Answers and comments from others are also welcome.

73 Andy

1 Like

I’d always have a safety line Andy. When I flew some big kites with a university friend’s friend 40 years ago that were capable of man lifting or moving a Land Rover 110, there was always an additional line. Often it was attached so that if the main line failed, the safety line would not hold the kite in a position where it could generate lift, but would stop the kite from blowing away.

2 Likes

Hi Andy,

Will be interested to know how you get on when you get round to trying it. Might be a good laugh to try & get a S2S contact between 2 kites but that’s probably one for the summer when the weather improves?

Answers to your questions/comments:-

No problems that I’ve encountered. At least not with the DX50. The wire that I used prior to the DX50 wasn’t quite as strong. I experienced a few issues there before I changed to the DX50.

According to the supplier, DX50 is expected to fail at around 130kg. Let’s say it should be safe up to around 110kg to give a margin of safety. Unless you are using a particularly big kite (like the type that Andy MM0FMF mentions in the above post), I suspect that you are unlikely to experience that much pull. The kite would probably tear apart before you get that far.

Having said that, the weak part in all my kite antenna systems…the part that has always given way on every occasion that I have had a failure…is either the knot on the antenna wire, or the attachment to the dog bone insulators.

I’ve never had a failure with the DX50 wire but as an aircraft engineer, I come from a background where there is always a backup.

The only time I ever went against that philosophy was on my first attempt. The wire snapped & I lost the kite. Not sure if you’ve seen that video but it was the first kite video in the playlist on my channel. Chasing it across the field on my bicycle (and ultimately failing to catch up with it as it disappeared over the horizon) wasn’t my finest hour!!!

After that experience I’ve always had a second safety line in there even though I’ve never needed it since, just in case something similar happens. Let’s call it a lesson learned!

That was my theory before I lost my first kite. Granted it had battens to stiffen it but it still relies on having tension to keep it inflated & maintain the aerofoil shape.

I thought without any tension on the lines it would collapse & fall to the ground. Unfortunately that wasn’t what happened.

The wind was still able to lift it into the air like a paper bag blowing around in the street, even without it maintaining it’s aerofoil shape.

Exactly that. I’d probably go for more than that if you can. Especially if the wind isn’t particularly strong.

From what I’ve read, the airflow will tend to be fairly smooth as it travels up the “upwind” side of a hill but will tend to break up and become turbulent as it travels over the top of the summit & even more so on the “downwind” side.

I have noticed that the kite is often a bit erratic at low levels (ie when I first launch it before it gets to altitude).

For this reason I always try to get the kite as high as I possibly can (within reason). Obviously limiting factors are how much space you have on the summit to lay out the line on the ground prior to launching (and also recovering it afterwards), CAA altitude limitations and also how far you are willing to walk when setting this up!

73

1 Like

Hi James,

I agree that would be fun and maybe a first for a SOTA S2S [Someone will tell us if not]. I have only 10W SSB (with my KX2) but have had good reports (using an inverted V linked dipole) on 80, 60 and 40 for inter-UK.

SOTAbeams website says that the maximum flying speed for my sled kite is about 20mph and a load of 55kg so I doubt the DX50 will get anywhere near its breaking strain.

I’ll ‘steal’ 10-15m of the nylon cord for the top end above the DX50 and use the rest on a separate reel as a backup. I also have two ‘dog-lead’ screw-in ground stakes so will use one for the backup cord. As a solo kite operator, I imagine paying out two reels of cord or wire simultaneously will be more tricky.

That’s been my experience too on the (non-radio) trials I’ve done with it supporting an antenna wire hanging independently of the flying cord. When the wind drops momentarily the drag force decreases and the kite dives but recovers if up high enough but can hit the ground if still in the ‘launch and climb’ stage.

Yes, finding a kite-friendly SOTA summit around here is a tricky one. Most of the G/LD summits near me are rocky or have a few trees [Suitable LD summits, Little Mell Fell? Suggestions welcome]. Some of the G/NP grassy moorland ones with rounded tops are like the GW ones in your video and would be more benign. In any case I’ll do the wire length trimming, practicing the set-up and tear-down, and (non-SOTA) radio trials in a local field before venturing up a SOTA hill.

Thanks for your comments. I just need the weather to behave now.

73 Andy

3 Likes

The rain stopped this morning, the sky was clear and there was a fresh breeze (about 15-18mph) with gusts. So, I shot off in the car and got to the grassy fields part of my local nature reserve. I knew it was probably a mistake to fly the kite so close to the woods on the lee side of my operating position.


SOTAbeams sled kite lifting 40m EFHW DX50 Kevlar insulated wire


49:1 UnUn on thick bungee shock cord to screw-in ‘dog tie’ ground stake and 5m of UltraFlex 7 coax feeder

But I wanted to sit in the shelter of this huge erratic rock to enjoy the heat of the sun and be out of the strong wind …
image
FT857 running from a 10AHr LiFePo4 with LDG Z-11 Pro II ATU

I heard really strong stations all across the SSB section of 40m with no noise – perfect!

The antenna was doing great although the 857 occasionally flashed up ‘Hi SWR’ during transmit. I had noticed on previous trials with my AA-35 antenna analyser that the SWR minimum moves around a lot from one end of the band to the other which I put down to the effective length (and hence resonant frequency) of the EFHW changing whenever the wire droops due to the kite pulling less as the wind drops. And it was very gusty today.

Olavur OY1OF in the Faroe Islands (~900km away midway between Iceland and Norway) was booming through calling CQ. My first contact on the kite antenna. He gave my 50W SSB 559. Then I had a 3-way QSO with locals Mark @M0NOM in Windermere and Rick 2E0FRS near Preston.

But suddenly the antenna was on the ground and the kite nowhere in sight.
image

The top end of the DX50 wire is tied to a metal carabiner which clips on (or off) to a plastic dogbone insulator. 15m of nylon flying cord runs down from the kite and is (or was!) knotted to the other end of the dogbone.

The eye in the dogbone insulator is smooth plastic and it’s hard to imagine any friction through rubbing would weaken the nylon enough to break it.

After packing up I searched the woods for an hour. My sniffer dog failed to find it.

Before I get a replacement kite, I’ll need to think about the cause. I’ve flown this exact kite many times in windy conditions (without an antenna) and the nylon cord never broke. The problem seems to be with the connection between antenna wire and flying cord.

I may need to use a second ‘safety’ flying cord, or use stronger cord, or tie better or more knots.

6 Likes

It’ll probably get shot down with a Sidewinder missile :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

5 Likes

Kite £40 ($50) vs Sidewinder $400,000

1 Like

Hi Andy,
I am sorry to hear of the loss of your kite and hope that you get a replacement soon as I have been watching this discussion with interest and suspect that it is only a matter of time until I buy a kite :slight_smile:

Could it be that line didn’t break, but the slippery kite line pulled through the knot?

73 Kevin

2 Likes

Hi Kevin. As the US Military spokesman said with regard to the three mysterious flying objects in US airspace, “I haven’t ruled out anything at this point”.

The knot or knots are my prime suspect. It’s a bit of a coincidence that the cord would happen to break there so even though I tied three knots (half hitches as I recall), the cord is very smooth and may have slipped through them over time. I used double fisherman knots on the bungee cord. Maybe that would have been better. Suggestions welcome.

1 Like

Hi Andy,
As a sailor a I like a sheet bend, or a double sheet bend if I am feeling cautious.

73, Kevin

1 Like

$400,000 when new… they have “use by” dates on them just like food does :wink: