How to talk to your region manager

I have tried to communicate with the pa region manager, to discuss the tremendously sad state sota in the Netherlands is in. Sadly no reply on my emails to the email address or any other form of communication going on. I am unwilling to take my situation to the management team. Let’s hope this post will be a positive influence to get the communication going. Thanks in advance, happy SOTA 'ing

Edwin, pd0sot (/a)

Oh dear. What’s up?

Well, communication is my first question, how to communicate with our regional manager.

Second the real question to him was:

how can we as Dutch sotateers survive this two summit region that is called PA. Allthough we do not have mountains like Alps or Rocky’s, let alone Himalaya’s we would like to be able to take part in the world renouwned SOTA program without having to shell out exponentially in logistics cost.

A single trip to the nearest 10 pointer takes 4 hours drive and costs at least 100€ on fuel. I am a very loyal and committed member of the SOTA community, my quest for a valid and understandable explanation of this strange behavior is getting the best of me.

Thank you for taking the time to read and answer my questions.


Your problem is nothing to do with the Association Manager but more to do with living in one of the flattest countries in the World and the rules of the SOTA program regarding prominence.This has been discussed many times before.

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I think you are right, my explanantion of the second question is the one i would love to take up with PA-region manager. That is why i stated i was shelling out to the reflector for the communication. And yes i live in a relatively flat country. and i query’ed the reflector many times to read up on as much as i could on the content of this situation. I do not want to rekindle the whole Pxxx discussion, just like to know how the PA assoc is in this … My question now extended to: how to become a mountain goat in a low summit country?

Thank you for taking the time to answer me, 73

Edwin, PD0SOT

By visiting countries with lots of summits.


So far there are 5 SOTA MGs in PA. Clearly they have travelled to countries where there more summits to achieve this; this is the same for keen mountaineers in your country. The rules of SOTA have been refined over nearly 20 years and the adoption of the concept of prominence has been fundamental from the outset. I can’t imagine that it will be revisited by the MT.

Perhaps you did not realise that summits from other countries would count towards your total? MG just activating in PA would indeed be a very lengthy process!

Thanks , that is a very sensible and clear way of putting it. :wink:

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Just noticed that PA’s top activator has not actually activated in PA at all!

Oke , clear on your answer. So i am incorrect in understanding that the regional manager can re-introduce more summits that not adhere to the current global Prominence rule? And ofcourse am i aware of the fact that 6 vs 2 operational summits is not a big deal in the mountain goat number deal.

Good of you to mention that the mountain goat points add up regardless in witch region or country they are achieved. Did Activate a Belgian summit allready so that was a lot of fun. That set my total points to 10. 990 points to go … that is 99 times a ten pointer.

I think with a bit of imagination you understand the picture of my issue now.

Thanks again and with regards, 73 !


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And even one of those 2 is a very close-run question, perhaps depending on war-time concrete at the top and a canal cutting at the bottom. Fortunately we have very high-resolution LIDAR for PA, but still it would be interesting to see a “Relative-Hills-of-Britain”-style survey of Signaal Imbosch to measure it to centi-metric precision using surveyor’s instruments.

And please , let me be clear on the fact that i am a big fan of the program. The people in it are great and i imagine that running the program is not allways a festivity of ease and relaxation.

That TA mountain goat of PA could be a very rich man! (monetary and mentally)

Well, it’s not rocket science is it as it’s the only way you can gain points sufficient to be an MG.
With 2 1pt summits in PA, if you don’t travel far and wide you will need 500 years to get to MG.

I would suggest a holiday to the The Vosges in France. About 700km from PA and you can easily do 5x 10pt summits a day. A 5 day holiday will give you an easy 250pts. Something to look forward to once travel is an option again.

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Yes , that travel option has come to mind. Allthough indeed a bit of patience needs to be taken in to account. Travel is still somewhat restricted in PA. Hoping to visit Austria gives similar results … As my current licence is not accepted in France i need to take the Austrian route. Smarter not harder is definatly the way!


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It’s not a race so you now have lots of time to plan. Think of it more like drinking a bottle of fine wine and enjoying every sip than gulping down a Macdonald’s milkshake.

Oh Yes,

After half an hour the milkshake is goan and with a good bottle of wine you’ll have a lot of fun the entire night.

As for the patience, that is especially in regard to the current corona/covid-19 situation. Ill Wire-UP! and grab as many points as i can. i am very proud of the ones i gathered so far and will continue to try in the future.

Thank you all for taking the time and energy to answer my questions. Hope to talk or fist you accordingly.

73 , Edwin PD0SOT.


If you have the opportunity to travel to West Texas, with a couple of short days we can get you 20 to 50 points a day and 3 or 4 new associations in your log.

Vy73 – Mike --KD5KC–El Paso, Texas.

In fact the AM is unable to add summits. What he can do is inform the MT that he has candidate summits. The MT then check these candidates using the best data available, and if they confirm that the summit is valid in accordance with the rules of SOTA then they assign a number, score and start date to it and add it to the database.

The original rules of SOTA specified a minimum prominance of 150 metres. Under that rule PA has no summits. In 2008 we responded to requests and changed the rules so that countries with no summits at 150 metres could use a prominence of 100 metres. This gave PA and a couple of years later OZ a presence in SOTA. Later we changed it again so that even if a country had valid 150 metre summits it could use a prominence of 100 metres if it had a summit density of less than one summit per 2000 km^2. Further than that we can not go. So you see that we actually changed SOTA so that PA could join in.

Luxembourg and Belgium are good 100m prominence countries (I think I am right in saying that). If you are keen enough when it is prudent to go, you should consider these as legitimate targets. Under normal circumstances many of us activate there when we are travelling further into Europe during the summer. Not this year unfortunately though. That said, it depends whether your licence permits this under the usual CEPT rules.

73 Phil

PS Using the SMP is you live in Zeist, near Arnhem your nearest 8 pointer is a drive on summit in Belgium. ON/ON-001. Almost 200 Km though in a straight line.

#Perhaps it would be more useful and rewarding to study for a higher level licence while you can’t do activations.

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