GW/SW-041 Black Mountain summit border question

I cannot understand why Black Mountain cannot be in G as well as GW SOTA regions as the border bisects the summit. Surely it is similar circumstances to DL/AL-001 and OE/TI-188 both listed as Biberkopf although Austria is claiming it as 2600m and Germany only 2599m - both activated today. I would be very interested to know the reasoning behind these decisions.

Nick G4OOE

In reply to G4OOE:
It used to be G/WB-001 but was changed to GW/SW-041 after a re avaluation.

73 Graham G4JZF

In reply to G4OOE:

It is very simple.

  1. In the UK (G, GM, GW, GD, GI) SOTA uses the RHB list of summits.

  2. The RHB list has the summit as Welsh and not English or Welsh/English.

  3. The MT accept that list as gospel.

Ergo, it has a Welsh reference. Not both.

Andy, MM0FMF
Database Manager.

A border summit having two (or more) references is an undesirable necessity. I am sure you can appreciate the diplomacy and sensitivity required by SOTA MT when working with overseas associations. If two neighbouring associations that are different ‘foreign’ countries with different governments/administrations both want to include a border summit in their ARMs, then it is not the place of SOTA MT to tell them otherwise.

In the case of the UK associations, a single list (The Relatives Hills / Marilyns) covers all states, so there is no duplication. In Spain, where there are also multiple associations within the one (political) country, the AMs have worked well together to ensure that border summits are listed once only. The same applies within Germany (DL and DM).

Black Mountain was originally listed in the RHB lists as in England, so it originally had an English reference. That group now categorises that summit in Wales, hence the G reference was discontinued and replaced with a GW reference.

For a border summit to have two references, the summit must be right on the border. A mountain with its summit clearly inside one country, but with the activation zone extending into the other cannot be claimed by the latter. So the example you quote may be worthy of further examination, but the difference in summit heights may be no more than a difference in government-held data, rather than different ‘summit’ positions.

Anyway, Black Mountain is an easy walk. It hardly merits 6 points, let alone 12 :wink:


In reply to M1EYP:
Thanks Tom and everyone very much for clearing this up for me.

I agree it is an easy and very enjoyable walk and I did enjoy my activation there yesterday, especially meeting in with Peter G3TJE also activating this summit.

Nick G4OOE

In reply to M1EYP:

Hi Tom,

Although the summit is classified as a GW summit,
I understand that if you are in the 'English part’
of the activation zone, you have to use your G or M
prefix. This anomaly also applied when it was G/WB-001,
and you had to use GW or MW when you were in the ‘Welsh

Kind regards


In reply to G0ELJ:

I think you’ll find that you are always meant to use the correct regional version of your callsign! :wink:

Summits with an AZ in both England and Scotland:

G/SB-004 Peel Fell. Quite a large portion of the AZ is in Scotland.
GM/SS-161 Larriston Fell. A small corner of the AZ is in England.


I have activated Black Mountain when it was G/WB-001 on the Welsh side and the callsign I was using was MW3EYP/P. I activated Black Mountain GW/SW-041 on the English side and the callsign I was using was M3EYP/P,

Jimmy M3EYP

In reply to M3EYP:

I had complaints from chasers when I used m0jla when activating GW/SW-041; I had to keep pointing out that I was sitting in Herefordshire.


I used to enjoy deliberately setting up on the “wrong” side of the border - but this was when I was operating fone and could discuss my awkwardness with enquiring chasers. Since doing mainly CW activations, I couldn’t be bothered with that, so my last visit to Black Mountain was as an MW and my recent trip to Peel Fell was as an M!