GW/MW-005, Llan Ddu Fawr. Who can me tell which is the true summit?

I have looked to activate GW/MW-005, Llan Ddu Fawr, for several years, but had been put off by reports of the boggy ground. The prolonged dry spell, and favourable feedback from TIM @G5OLD’s recent activation, encouraged me to visit.

I thought that it would be pretty safe to assume that I would not meet anyone on this summit, so I was surprised to find another car at the parking location.

The OS map shows ‘the true summit’ to be at SN791704, 500m beyond the trig point, with some marshy ground between the two summits.


© Crown copyright and database rights 2025 Ordnance Survey (100025252)

It was a pleasant walk to the trig point with clear skies, and mostly firm ground. On reaching the trig point I decide to make a visit to the second summit. As I approached, I wondered just how confident I could be as to which summit was the high point, with only 1m of height difference on the map.


At the summit I found Myrddyn Phillips and Aled Williams. They had been examining LiDAR imaging of the terrain and were surveying the summits to establish their height.


Back at the trig I set-up my station and tried to work some of the summit to summit stations at the Lake District weekend on 2m FM. I could hear many of my friends at a solid 59 but just couldn’t get through the pile-ups. No matter, the event had attracted lots of chasers to the band and I qualified easily on 2m.

I switched to HF, with my trig point reference at the ready for Esther @GI0AZA. The HF bands were worryingly quiet. I managed only one UK contact on 40m SSB and only managed 3 in total. All credit goes to Mal @GW6OVD. I increased my power to 10w and switched to 40m CW. After 15 minutes of calling I only had 2 contacts. 20m CW was little better, and I only just managed to qualify due to the ever dependable Jack @OH3GZ, Manuel @EA2DT, Fabio @IK2LEY, and a summit to summit call from Kurt, @HB9AFI. It can’t have been a great day for the chasers. I am very grateful for their support.

Myrddyn arrived at the summit while I was activating, and made a series of survey samples. We were both packing up at around the same time. Myrddyn said that I need not wait for him as he was a slow walker and would need a couple stops on the way. I explained that there was nothing for me to rush for, that would be half as pleasant as a sharing his company. I casually mentioned the addition on Rhinog Fach GW/NW-078 as a SOTA summit, “Yes, I resurveyed it in 2021”, Mynydd Anelog GW/NW-077, “Yes we surveyed that in 2020”, and Black Mountain, GW/SW-041 moving from England to Wales, “Now that’s an interesting story …”.

Myrddyn is a very amiable chap, with a love of mountains and maps. I thoroughly recommend having a look at his ‘Mapping Mountains’ Blogsite.

In the coming weeks he will publish the answer to my question: Which is the highest summit.

73, Kevin MW0KXN

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I heard you on 2FM Kevin but it was not your frequency, I think you may have been calling Ben, GW4BML/P. You were a pretty reasonable signal on Old Man of Coniston G/LD-013.

Would have been nice to get a QSO, but I guess I didn’t pursue it and I didn’t tune across you calling on your own frequency.

I thought I had an issue with my HF equipment at first, but then concluded that the propagation was just dire.

73, Colin

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Hi Colin,
I heard you work Ben, David and Andy but didn’t find you calling CQ. This is a sign of a great SOTA LD weekend. I hope that you had a good time. It was unfortunate that I was unable to get to the Lakes, but I will try doubly hard to get to the next one.

73, Kevin

I have the Space weather live app on my phone and I get lots of notifications about geomagnetic storms and solar flares so I have a good idea on the morning of an activation if conditions may be challenging. Plus the FT8 frequencies make an excellent beacon.

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Hi Kevin,

The SOTA mapping page provides the answer as to where the ‘real’ summit for SOTA is.
It appears though that many of the submitted routes end at the trig/cairn instead; assuming that this is within the AZ.
The mapping page has both at 594m, whereas OS maps has one at 593m.

It may be difficult to obtain an accurate (difference) in elevation with commercially available GPS receivers.
But as long as the elevation drop between the two points is within the stipulated 25m, both locations should be OK…

Looking forward to your answer.

PS. By the way, you weren’t far off the centre of the Universe…

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According to the LIDAR we have about 10m in hand. For sure the AZ encompasses both high points.

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Hi Simon,
I am comfortable that either summit is within the activation zone. I was just curious as to how accurate the mapping of each summit was and then bumped into some folks surveying the summits. The results won’t have any impact on SOTA for this summit.
Myryddyn and Aled have had quite an impact on SOTA in Wales and it was nice to meet them.
73, Kevin

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