'Give me the PROPER callsign!

Last weekend we were out on a couple of rather cold lowly Mid Wales summits which we hoped were out of the forecast cloud on the hills. As we got beyond Kington and then Rhayader the clouds rolled back, the sun came out and the wet roads started to be edged with ice. We carefully drove up through the farm to the parking for Pegwyn Mawr GW/MW-006. Up the windfarm road rather gingerly because of the ice patches and eventually out on the grass and a large bunch of hungry sheep

We had met the farmer, and had the usual friendly chinwag which ended abruptly when he mentioned the new tax rules for family farms…, but he had delivered to some lower fields and the food hadn’t reached up to the summit yet. Some good s2s (GW5OLD amd MW0PJE) before the dipole was unpacked but I was happy with 13 in the bag (( 2m, 4 70cm) in 30 mins as it was too cold to linger and the fingers were more frozen by the time everything was packed away.


It is really quite a ‘busy’ summit with odd poles littered around as well as a turbine which rather dwarfs the trig point on the right. Sharp eyes willl find my mast…! In the intervening hour or so most of the road had unfrozen

so walking down was swifter and we were soon in the car and on to the cross country route to Beacon Hill GW/MW-006.
The last part of the journey is a narrow switchback (we once had to give up up on the second steep bit, somehow turn round and slither back down again as we thought we’d get completely stuck - and Gwaunceste seemed a safer bet with a layby on a main road!) which had had time to thaw out and it wasn’t ;until we met a car and small horse trailer that I had second thoughts. Were we going to meet the hunt at the parking place and thus find everything full?? Rodney did a long tricky back down to the farm and the trailer went past - and no more followed phew! Then we reached the parking place (or remains of …)

Sorry, but my camera doesn’t like taking pictures into even hazy sun but this will give you a better idea

which had a large horsebox in the big new layby on the right as you drive up and copious amounts of fir tree on the left (apparently blown down in November, we later heard) with cars and trailers scattered up on the bare hillside through the gate (Crown land). Yes, it was hunt day again but we had arrived late enough for most of the vehicles to move and a space was left, after shoving a few branches aside, to park amongst the debris, boot up and start up the very wet track which winds over a big bog (thank goodness they improved it some years ago so winding from clump of rushes to the next was just possible with fairly dry feet), and then round the hill and finally up to the trig point with its scant protection.from the cold wind

but at least the sun was still shining -just.

Up went the dipole (and down again once or twice as usual) and I started calling at 1500 (which is getting a bit late.for 2m chasers) but within 30 mins both bands were qualified and 70cm was bounding along.
Total 20 contacts with 10 on each band (gosh!) including a second s2s with GW4OLD who had left the rather busy Pen y Fan (GW/SW-001) and was relaxing on the very peaceful Waun Rhydd (GW/SW-004) and happpy to work both bands. As I was getting ready to shut down and saying ‘Last calls’

Sorry no time to finish now, honestly, will resumes asap - but you can invent the final chapter if you like!.
Edit. Well it looks as if you are all haing a good go in the comments below and some of you have got very close to the reasons for writing (in instalments!) this rambling account. However i will persevere…
Just as I was saying ‘Last calls’ and, most probably moaning that I was rather cold (as usual) a new callsign came in from someone (I refuse to refer to him as a gentleman and you will see why) stating that he was was from the ‘West Midlands’ (actual location and callsign not divulged by me - or anyone else pse). I gave him my callsign ‘MW6BWA/P’ and asked his name. No answer except 'that call sign must be wrong as ‘you are not listed in QRZ. Please give me your proper callsign.’ I then explained that I was English and that would not be in QRZ under MW6BWA. This was brushed aside (probably because he couldn’t actually hear me) and he changed my callsign to MW7BWA and complained again that this wasn’t a proper callsign. By this time I was getting somewhat cold and my voice somewhat icy… However this mattered not to my caller. He no longer wished to talk to me and just demanded from anyone else listening ‘Give me the PROPER call sign, give me the proper callsign.’ Even I eventually realise a lost cause and my temper was getting hot if my hands weren’t, so I pulled the plug and dismantled asap.
On the walk out (into the wind most of the way of course) I muttered that, if he had to ask someone else what my call sign was (whether proper or not) then it was NOT a PROPER contact anyway and I very much hoped that no-one had told him my call sign and thus enabled him to gain 2 pts I felt he didn’t deserve. I also thought that, as a full licence holder, he should understand the use of regional prefixes and be able to sort out the mystery unaided. (and also that it was not essential for all activators (or anyone else) to be listed on QRZ. Strangely, I had had the same sort of conversation with another chaser just a week or so before. This person could hear me and use his brain so found me without the ‘W’ in QRZ, thanked me politely and departed the best of friends.
Sorry this account has been rather disjointed but hope you can see why I wanted to air the topic. When reading the thread please bear in mind that the final part was written after No 8 in the thread. I shall now go and read all the comments below but I have a feeling that MM0FMF are going to be in agreement…?
Viki

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Im intrigued now Vicki about the “Give me the proper callsign”
Glyn M7CAD

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And the photo of the remains of the parking space.

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The chaser could not determine Vicki’s callsign when in QSO with Vicki and needed a 3rd party (you) to give the details. So there’s no way that is a valid QSO for SOTA or ham radio in general. Sorry, them’s the rules.

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Sounds more like the ‘I don’t believe that’s a valid callsign because its not on qrz.com’ scenario than a chaser needing help copying it.

Unless I read the post wrong.

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I’ve had this happen to me a couple of times when operating in GW & GI…

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Could be Matt. This would have been 2m/70cms so the chaser will be in the UK. If they hold a UK licence and don’t understand how the UK RSL letters work then, let’s be brutally honest here, they should give up on air activity until they have had some remedial licence training.

Beggars belief Mathew. There must be some very poor training being done by a few clubs in the UK.

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Not so!
Discussion at our club this evening about the lack of club courses because the RSGB in its wisdom (?) now allows everything to be done on-line with the result that our next in-person course has only one applicant (and the same scenario reported by a club in a much more populous area). Many new licence holders have no practical experience of either radios or aerials (unless from a technical background of some sort) and have no clue at all how to safely and practically get “on-air”.
73,
Rod

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For those people (myself included) who, on returning to a thread, only start reading at the red line (which indicates where they could have got to last time) I must point out that the original post has now been lengthened - and actually reaches the end now. It also has a jolly sheep picture - and some fallen trees.
Viki

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I heard most of this QSO (the man in the West Midlands was fading in out a bit at times) and I could really sense your frustration Viki.

It was surprising to say the least!

Anyway, great to see your pictures, GW/MW-009 looks like one for me to do (who knows I might get up a summit this year! :grin: ). I do like that wild area beyond Knighton.

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You can add these additional callsigns into qrz.com with a link back to your main callsign. For example, both GM4TGJ and GW4TGJ are in there although GI4TGJ isn’t as I have never operated there. Of course, none of this alters the fact that the other station is an ignorant trump.

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When I read that I nodded my head, as I am sure many others did, but then I found myself wondering what the rules actually say. In 3.8 Rules for Chasers, we see “2. The Chaser must make a QSO with the Summit Expedition, in which at least callsigns and two-way reports are exchanged. Wherever possible, the SOTA Reference Number should also be obtained as part of the QSO.” And that’s it, no mention anywhere of third party assists being forbidden. Use of repeaters is forbidden, but I doubt that a third party assist could be regarded as using a repeater. As one who took part in framing the current rules I think this may well have been an oversight, because we all know that third party assists are invalid, don’t we? - or do we…doesn’t the USA national society have the word “relay” in its title? :grinning: Nevertheless, the current ham culture is against the idea of third party assists and I don’t see such an ingrained tenet going away any time soon. Despite this, as our rules stand I don’t think that assisted QSO is invalid.

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I think there was a misunderstanding in my comment. The operator had the correct callsign written down from his qso, he just couldn’t find it on qrz as it had the w prefix on it.

All I did was tell him that to find her on qrz he had to leave out the w suffix. At no point did I assist his contact with Vicki but was just being helpful in assisting him to locate her on qrz.

It seems to me that being helpful to fellow operators isn’t part of sota.

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My ADIF Processor uses the qrz.com XML data API to attempt to determine the location of contacts for mapping purposes, where they aren’t doing an activity such as SOTA.

I have to take into account regional and special event callsign modifiers when searching the database, so there is a lookup table and logic in CallSignUtils.java that attempts a lookup for each variant, so would correctly determine a qrz.com page eventually, via multiple lookups.

I don’t know if this issue affects callsigns in other countries, or it is unique to the UK?

I know of at least two SOTA activators who don’t have a qrz.com page, and in that case when I have had a contact with them at their home QTH I have to manually enter an approximate location. Not so good for mapping, but a perfectly acceptable situation.

People ask me why I like amateur radio. I explain that it is great to have a wonderful community of friends on the radio. I also like the fact I can turn the radio off. :grinning: :grimacing:

Have fun out there, and don’t let the b******s grind you down!

Mark.

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Hi Viki

I think the problem is that some folks are using QRZ.com as their only logging tool.
Last year on 10M I called a US station (somewhere in the deep South by his accent) and got the reply “I hear y’all, but if you ain’t on QRZ I caint work ya”.

My view - it’s their loss. Like the iQRM-ers, move on and QSY if necessary.

Cheers
Rick

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Stupid is as stupid does.

:man_facepalming:

When we had the A1 operator telling us all that 14.300MHz was his frequency that only he and his wannabee coastguards could use it, he complained bitterly to the MT that MM0 was not a valid callsign prefix and I didn’t have a licence because I don’t have a QRZ page. Not surprisingly, placing him on to moderation did give me a minor amount of satisfaction.

I can understand to some degree that stations in the US do not know that not every ham authority worldwide publishes the name/address of all licencees unlike the FCC does. So not being listed on QRZ is a worrying indication to such people. Certainly US calls not listed there are either new or fake. But UK hams failing to understand that MW6BWA may well be M/MM/MI/MD/MU/MJ 6BWA or believing that you have to be in QRZ is very concerning.

Certainly, this UK station is going to need careful medical care when he finds just how many UK callsigns are “details witheld” in the official callbook
:exploding_head:
:mask:
:hospital:
:face_with_head_bandage:

Changing the prefix internals is a UK unique action. Some other countries do/did things like appending a call area number to the call such as Ron VK3AFW (Victoria State) signing as VK3AFW/2 when operating in New South Wales. It may be optional there now. I believe that is still done in Canada. It was done in the US but is no longer required.

Thanks for the clarification Alan. It makes a big difference as the QSO would be valid as he had the call and you didn’t prejudice that because you didn’t help him copy the callsign when you offered help regarding QRZ. However, my learned friend is wrong in that there isn’t a single ham radio award scheme in the world that allows a QSO to be considered valid if the participants could not exchange callsigns without 3rd party help or using non-amateur means. It doesn’t need documenting as it is a well known basic requirement of a ham QSO.

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I went to Pegwyn Mawr on Thursday. I opened the lower gate and was followed through by a farmer in a black Toyota Hilux, towing a sheep trailer. I parked up at the end of the public road and he pulled up alongside. He very politely, with genuine concern, asked if I was lost :slight_smile:

After I explained what I was doing he then offered me a lift to the top!!! I politely declined.

Anyway, he had to drop the trailer off the pickup. By which time I had reached the next gate on foot. In fact I was just through it and I’d closed it. Then I spotted he was coming up. So I returned a few steps and re-opened the gate for him to come through. Given my kindness he again offered a lift, in fact he sort of insisted (well that’s my excuse)… so I gave in. 10 mins later I was on the top getting set up. What a spendid chap!

I did walk down!! :slight_smile:


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Indeed. When I activated the summit he came up to see me for a chat. He couldn’t understand how I’d got through the farmyard without his dogs kicking off. I told him the dogs had a reputation amongst SOTA activators which amused him. No doubt those particular dogs have now gone to the great kennel in the sky. :smiley:

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Indeed the use of /2 for New South Wales is optional but many operators here still do it.

On a related topic the VK licencing authority, ACMA, no longer publish names and addresses for amateur licence holders. They do provide a simple lookup where one can see if a call sign is assigned, the licence class it is assigned to, or if it is available to be assigned.

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They thought that about the norms that held together Roman government. Until along came Julius Caesar.

2084 years later …

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