Yesterday DF7TR Thomas and me, DM1DF Daniel did the first activation of Hinterreintalschrofen DL/WS-025. It is a great summit in a great landscape.
It´s a shame this summit will be deleted end of the year. (Conversion P100 to P150 in DL end of 2024)
Lot of people, not only in DL, are thinking it´s too bad that great and beautiful summits have no SOTA reference because of P150.
Many YLs and OMs are asking himself why the Management Team does not do exception about particulary beautiful summits. Rules are rules and this important for saving the programm.
But it should be no problem to allow EVERY assotiaton or regional Manager all over the world to determine a limited number of summits they have no P150 but are worth preserving für SOTA.
Like summit-wildcards?
Maybe the MT will hear our wishes and think about.
P100 or P150? Beautiful Summits should be activated!
Who decides which summits should be wild cards? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Having an entirely objective measure (P150) means there is no need for endless debate.
This could be the decision of the Association Manager AM or RM. They have the knowledge about their regions. They know about beautiful summits they are no P150.
I think there is no problem about SOTA rules generally when every region determine one or two or … summits depending on the size of the assoziation or region.
It´s too bad that summits they are touristy, famous or simpley beautiful and are not P150 do not have a SOTA Reference. These few summits could become a wildcard for example.
The concept of “wildcards” is an interesting one. There are many iconic summits even here in England that would be worthy of wildcard nomination.
However, I think after over 20 years of SOTA based upon purely objective criterion for summit inclusion, the programme is unlikely to roll back on such principles.
I really enjoyed this activation with you, Daniel @DM1DF! It was an amazing day with great views and nice weather. Additionally our schedule worked out perfectly and I really enjoyed, that we met in person for the first time yesterday and came along very well.
It started, when I just texted Daniel to go to DM/BM together to catch some sun. Our home QTH is not far from each other and well known for its dense fog this time of the year. When he proposed this first activation to me, i was very motivated, because I was thinking about that exact summit before this year, but I also had a decent amount of respect of the tour. Sure thing a certain amount of respect is important. Otherwise it gets careless and dangerous.
What surprised me was, that I once again checked the open first activations in Germany. I found 7 (now 6 ;)) options of which DL/WS-025 might be the easiest one. But 6 of these 7 summits are going to be deleted by the end of 2024. I am not long into the game, but I suppose, there are summits like Irschenhausen DL/BE-094, where a deletion seems more or less bearable. But the fact, that 6 of the 7 apparently most difficult summits in DL are going to be deleted because of P150 made me sad.
As I said, I am quite new to the game. In fact I am probably one of the youngest regularly active SOTA activators. I found passion for amateur radio last year and I am now 25 years old. I do not want to get involved too deep in the discussion about P100 or P150, because I lack very much of the history that lead to this decision and it is already a decision and no longer a discussion. But I want to say one thing from the view of someone of my age. When I look on the inactive summits near my home QTH, there have been summits in cycling distance. I find it hard to justify driving 200 km for one or two activations. I think that such rules are a step into the wrong direction for getting younger people involved in our amazing hobby and especially SOTA.
I liked hiking and climbing before SOTA and I will absolutely continue to do so! But I am having a little inner conflict. On the one hand, I really enjoy SOTA activations, the nice infrastructure and the local community. On the other hand, I do not feel like the program itself cares about me. According this point, I have made a very different experience with other programs. I think, there is just not the one perfect portable activation program. All are nice, but all also have their drawbacks.
Hope to meet you on the bands again soon!
Best 73
Thomas DF7TR
That looks amazing Daniel! Scotland also has some rough, tough and iconic summits that aren’t p150. The UK has a p100 programme called HEMA. That brings many of those summits into play. Maybe it’s time to set up something similar across Germany, if such a programme doesnt already exist?
I agree. I wish the SOTA program were more flexible and adaptable to regional differences. Many iconic summits where I live (the Pyrenees) are not referenced due to the P150 rule. The same strange rules apply to the points scale. How can a random hill in some places be worth the same 10 points as a 4,000-meter peak like the Matterhorn? I guess the founders wanted a very universal formula for SOTA, and creating specific rules for every region or summit would be a hassle and sometimes subjective.
I think the best approach is to continue hiking or climbing as usual, and if it’s a SOTA summit, bring the radio. If not, you’ll just walk lighter, and that’s it. It’s a bit sad for the radio activity, though…
There is already the GMA Global Mountain Activity Award System. That usually takes over SOTA summits that are becoming inactive.
Originally founded after the prominence cut at DM Lower German summits association. But that’s an old wound so to say…
HEMA does cover Germany in certain areas and also a number of other countries and has been slowly developing like SOTA. There is also GMA which will incorporate any named summit deemed worthy. This particular summit can and no doubt will be incorporated into one or more schemes, just not SOTA.
I understand the sentiments that have been expressed. The problem is that if we allow subjective judgments, then where do we stop? Arguments about which summits deserve inclusion would ensue and indeed this subject has arisen several times in the past.
Hi Fraser @MM0EFI thanks for comment. I know what you mean, and yes there is a similar programm called GMA and it´s also ok. But SOTA is SOTA and it´s too bad that a few specialy summits have no reference.
Nice, I didn’t know about this. It brings to light many well-known summits in my region. The downsides are the registration and management of yet another website, which isn’t very well-designed. I might give it a try for those extra summits, even though it might feel less satisfying than an ‘official’ SOTA activation. Who knows?
I have once done a combination of GMA and POTA near my home QTH. I went there by bike. It was fun, but I think most of the Chasers came because of POTA.
Additionally, if one takes GMA seriously, you would also have to log every SOTA activation into the GMA database. Sometimes, a SOTA reference is still missing in GMA. Same problem with Flora Fauna and POTA.
I have done SOTA, COTA, Flora Fauna, GMA and POTA activations so far. I really enjoy portable activations, but I think, I should stick to a few of these programs. And I have never seen someone activating both competing programs at the same time like SOTA+GMA or FF+POTA.
By the way. In combination with sotl.as, I think, that SOTA has by far the nicest online representation. I think that this is something that new and younger people, like myself, really value!
Web design and user interface are crucial, and SOTA is doing great in these areas compared to many amateur radio websites, which often feature outdated designs reminiscent of the late 1990s. Additionally, all third-party apps and tools for spotting are linked exclusively to Sotawatch, making self-spotting difficult in areas without cell phone coverage.
It seems to me that any award scheme needs to be defined, whether it is a country (entity) island group, park or summit, a criterion must be set by which candidates can be selected or rejected, and once that criterion has been defined then it should be adhered to, because once you start to permit deviations then nominating exceptions will be a continuous source of debate and extra work for those operating the scheme. I am sure that many of us have favourite summits that fail to qualify: I have two, High Spy in G/LD and Earls Hill/Pontesford Hill in G/WB, both of which fail by as little as one metre. Lovely hills, but a rule is a rule, and you either have rules or anarchy. Note, however, that while a rule must be rigid, the same does not apply to surveys. If a new survey leads to a new height for summit or its col and the new prominence makes the summit compliant then it will be added to the program. Similarly if a new survey makes a summit non-compliant then it will be removed. There is no room for discussion in this: a summit earns its place in the scheme by the numbers, not by sentiment, by digits not delight.
