Finding mode by band by region from the database

I’m interested in finding the breakdown by mode (CW, SSB, FM, etc) for a given band and particular region (or by individual summit, which I could then aggregate over all that region’s summits). For example, the percentage of 2m QSOs in G/LD that were CW mode.

It doesn’t look like that’s possible from the database but would like an expert to tell me for sure (it would probably make the database a lot bigger).

I can see in SOTA Facts and Figures the worldwide breakdown by mode for all QSOs. I can see from the summit activation history the modes breakdown by activator for all bands but not by individual bands, so that doesn’t help, I think.

When I searched the reflector, I couldn’t find this question previously asked.

73, Andy

It’s not something that I can recall being asked for in the past Andy. So, there is no option to request that data breakdown.

However, it’s just about Advent and the season of goodwill to all men, so if you have a few regions you are interested in, let me know and I can do some manual queries and post the results.

Thanks Andy but, unless you think you can work some magic on the database, I don’t want you to go to a lot of trouble. I’m specifically interested in CW activity on 2m in G/LD.

I’m due to move to the Lake District in January and intend to activate all the LD SOTA and WOTA summits now I’m retired. If I can’t do HF/CW on a particular summit (for the usual reasons) I would like to try 2m/CW or even 70cm/CW (with SSB and FM as backup).

I’ve drafted a new topic for the reflector in which I would ask if G/LD activators use CW mode much on VHF/UHF on a routine day to day basis, and if not, would they respond to my CW alerts.

But, I’m holding off posting that topic until we’ve actually moved (I’ve sold two houses in Scotland but have heard nightmare stories about buyers dropping out at the last minute here in England).

Every G/LD activation on 2m CW (ordered by SummitRef, Date, Time)

SummitRef Name Activator Chaser Date Time
G/LD-001 Scafell Pike GX0OOO/P G4RQJ 2009-06-03 12:00
G/LD-001 Scafell Pike GX0OOO/P G4SSH 2009-06-03 12:04
G/LD-001 Scafell Pike GX0OOO/P G0TDM 2009-06-03 12:05
G/LD-001 Scafell Pike GX0OOO/P GW0DSP 2009-06-03 12:09
G/LD-001 Scafell Pike GX0OOO/P G4BLH 2009-06-03 12:10
G/LD-001 Scafell Pike GX0OOO/P G3WPF 2009-06-03 14:03
G/LD-001 Scafell Pike GX0OOO/P G3RMD 2009-06-03 14:05
G/LD-005 Great Gable GX0OOO/P G0TDM 2009-06-04 11:25
G/LD-005 Great Gable GX0OOO/P G4BLH 2009-06-04 11:26
G/LD-005 Great Gable GX0OOO/P G4RQJ 2009-06-04 11:35
G/LD-005 Great Gable GX0OOO/P G0TDM 2009-06-04 12:10
G/LD-005 Great Gable GX0OOO/P G3OHC 2009-06-04 12:11
G/LD-007 Fairfield GX0OOO/P M5XYZ 2006-03-02 12:38
G/LD-008 Blencathra - Hallsfell Top G0PZO/P G4BLH 2006-04-15 11:34
G/LD-008 Blencathra - Hallsfell Top G3RMD/P G4CPA 2007-10-28 11:27
G/LD-009 Grasmoor G4OIG/P G4BLH 2011-07-31 12:49
G/LD-009 Grasmoor G4OIG/P G3RMD 2011-07-31 12:51
G/LD-009 Grasmoor G4OIG/P G0TDM 2011-07-31 12:54
G/LD-014 Kirk Fell GX0OOO/P G4USW 2009-06-04 14:50
G/LD-014 Kirk Fell GX0OOO/P G0TDM 2009-06-04 14:52
G/LD-014 Kirk Fell GX0OOO/P M1EYP/P 2009-06-04 15:27
G/LD-014 Kirk Fell GX0OOO/P GW0DSP 2009-06-04 15:28
G/LD-014 Kirk Fell GX0OOO/P G4BLH 2009-06-04 15:30
G/LD-014 Kirk Fell G4OIG/P G3RMD 2011-09-18 14:14
G/LD-015 Grisedale Pike G0HIO/P G4WHA/A 2015-09-09 09:38
G/LD-015 Grisedale Pike G0HIO/P G0TDM 2015-09-09 09:38
G/LD-015 Grisedale Pike G0HIO/P 2E0MIX 2015-09-09 09:40
G/LD-015 Grisedale Pike G0HIO/P MM6SNT 2015-09-09 09:43
G/LD-015 Grisedale Pike G0HIO/P GM3OXK 2015-09-09 09:47
G/LD-015 Grisedale Pike G0HIO/P G0ORO 2015-09-09 09:49
G/LD-015 Grisedale Pike G0HIO/P GI4KSO 2015-09-09 09:51
G/LD-020 Dale Head M0RCP/P G0TDM 2009-02-17 15:50
G/LD-020 Dale Head M0RCP/P G4BLH 2009-02-17 16:02
G/LD-020 Dale Head G4OIG/P G3RMD 2011-05-22 10:11
G/LD-021 Robinson M0RCP/P GW0DSP 2009-02-17 13:00
G/LD-021 Robinson M0RCP/P G4USW 2009-02-17 13:08
G/LD-021 Robinson M0RCP/P G4BLH 2009-02-17 13:16
G/LD-024 Pike of Blisco G4RQJ/P M0RCP/P 2009-03-15 13:55
G/LD-025 Seatallan G4RQJ/P M1EYP/P 2008-06-15 13:55
G/LD-025 Seatallan G4OIG/P G4BLH 2011-04-25 11:12
G/LD-027 Place Fell G4OIG/P G3RMD 2010-03-01 09:28
G/LD-028 Harter Fell (Eskdale) G4OIG/P G4BLH 2010-03-01 16:06
G/LD-028 Harter Fell (Eskdale) G4OIG/P G3OHC 2010-03-01 16:08
G/LD-029 Illgill Head G4OIG/P G4BLH 2011-04-26 10:25
G/LD-049 Kirkby Moor M1EYP/P G3RMD 2009-04-19 11:11
G/LD-050 Gummer’s How M1EYP/P G0TDM 2008-07-26 14:00
G/LD-050 Gummer’s How M1EYP/P G4OWG 2008-07-26 14:06
G/LD-050 Gummer’s How M1EYP/P G3OHC 2008-07-26 14:09
G/LD-050 Gummer’s How M1EYP/P G4BLH 2008-07-26 14:31
G/LD-050 Gummer’s How M1EYP/P G4DJJ 2008-07-26 14:34
G/LD-054 Watch Hill G4OIG/P G3RMD 2010-04-25 16:13
G/LD-054 Watch Hill G4OIG/P G0TDM 2010-04-25 16:26
G/LD-057 Swinside G4OIG/P G3RMD 2011-02-19 09:27
G/LD-057 Swinside G4OIG/P G4BLH 2011-02-19 09:31

Every G/LD activation on 70cms CW (ordered by SummitRef, Date, Time)

SummitRef Name Activator Chaser Date Time
G/LD-001 Scafell Pike G4OIG/P G0TDM 2010-07-17 13:12
G/LD-003 Helvellyn G4OIG/P G3RMD 2010-10-11 12:37
G/LD-003 Helvellyn G4OIG/P G3WPF 2010-10-11 12:41
G/LD-004 Skiddaw G4OIG/P G0TDM 2010-04-26 08:37
G/LD-004 Skiddaw G4OIG/P G3RMD 2010-04-26 08:40
G/LD-006 Pillar G4OIG/P G3RMD 2011-10-15 14:53
G/LD-006 Pillar G4OIG/P G0TDM 2011-10-15 14:57
G/LD-007 Fairfield G4OIG/P G3RMD 2011-08-01 12:40
G/LD-007 Fairfield G4OIG/P G0TDM 2011-08-01 12:42
G/LD-009 Grasmoor G4OIG/P G4BLH 2011-07-31 13:04
G/LD-010 St Sunday Crag G4OIG/P G3RMD 2011-08-01 10:13
G/LD-010 St Sunday Crag G4OIG/P G0TDM 2011-08-01 10:15
G/LD-010 St Sunday Crag G4OIG/P M0TUB 2011-08-01 10:17
G/LD-011 High Street G4OIG/P G4OWG 2011-03-21 13:18
G/LD-015 Grisedale Pike G4OIG/P G3RMD 2011-07-31 09:46
G/LD-018 Stony Cove Pike G4OIG/P G3RMD 2010-12-11 11:31
G/LD-022 Seat Sandal G4OIG/P G3RMD 2011-08-01 15:01
G/LD-022 Seat Sandal G4OIG/P G0TDM 2011-08-01 15:02
G/LD-022 Seat Sandal G4OIG/P G4BLH/M 2011-08-01 15:04
G/LD-023 Knott G4OIG/P G0TDM 2010-06-20 10:13
G/LD-026 Tarn Crag (Sleddale) G3CWI/P GW4OIG/P 2007-11-03 11:53
G/LD-026 Tarn Crag (Sleddale) G3CWI/P G3RMD 2007-11-03 12:22
G/LD-026 Tarn Crag (Sleddale) G4OIG/P G4BLH 2010-05-14 14:47
G/LD-026 Tarn Crag (Sleddale) G4OIG/P G3WPF 2010-05-14 14:54
G/LD-026 Tarn Crag (Sleddale) G4OIG/P G4RQJ 2010-05-14 14:57
G/LD-026 Tarn Crag (Sleddale) G4OIG/P G4OBK 2010-05-14 15:01
G/LD-026 Tarn Crag (Sleddale) G4OIG/P G3RMD 2010-05-14 15:03
G/LD-028 Harter Fell (Eskdale) G4OIG/P G4BLH 2010-03-01 16:14
G/LD-028 Harter Fell (Eskdale) G4OIG/P G4OBK 2010-03-01 16:18
G/LD-030 Black Combe G4OIG/P G4BLH 2010-02-28 11:30
G/LD-030 Black Combe G4OIG/P G3RMD 2010-02-28 11:35
G/LD-030 Black Combe G4OIG/P G4OBK 2010-02-28 11:40
G/LD-032 Whitfell G4OIG/P G3RMD 2010-02-28 16:12
G/LD-032 Whitfell G4OIG/P G4OBK 2010-02-28 16:20
G/LD-038 Grayrigg Forest G4OIG/P G3RMD 2009-10-26 09:34
G/LD-039 Baystones G4OIG/P G4CPS 2010-05-14 09:15
G/LD-043 Hallin Fell G4OIG/P G0TDM 2010-04-26 15:33
G/LD-045 Dent G4OIG/P G3RMD 2010-04-25 13:30
G/LD-046 Lambrigg Fell G4OIG/P G3RMD 2009-10-26 12:50
G/LD-046 Lambrigg Fell G4OIG/P G3NYY/P 2009-10-26 12:54
G/LD-046 Lambrigg Fell G4OIG/P G4OBK 2009-10-26 12:59
G/LD-049 Kirkby Moor M1EYP/P G3RMD 2009-04-19 11:00
G/LD-052 Hutton Roof Crags G4OIG/P G3RMD 2009-10-26 16:06
G/LD-052 Hutton Roof Crags G4OIG/P G4OBK 2009-10-26 16:10
G/LD-052 Hutton Roof Crags G4OIG/P G3WPF 2009-10-26 16:13
G/LD-053 Claife Heights G4OIG/P G4BLH 2010-03-21 16:20
G/LD-055 Muncaster Fell - Hooker Crag G4OIG/P G4OBK 2010-04-25 09:08

Am I reading this right? ONE summit in the past 6 years.

That’s not what I’m reading…

Thanks Andy. A quick digest of that data (so I could be mistaken) shows:

For 2m CW:
54 QSOs and 23 activations in 9 years (2006/03 – 2015/09) so average of 2.6 CW activations per year. 5 activations with 4 or more CW contacts.

For 70cm CW:
47 QSOs and 26 activations in 4 years (2007/11 - 2011/10) so average of 6.5 CW activations per year. 1 activation with 4 or more CW contacts.

I don’t need comparative data on FM and SSB to see that CW activity is tiny. However, I’m hoping that reflects the historically small number of 2m/70cm CW G/LD activators and not the willingness of chasers to operate CW.

Yup, CW on VHF and up is not common at all.

However, these are taken from the database and it’s possible some may be logged wrong. i.e. someone was logging and forgot to change CW to FM when they started entering the 2m QSOs.

For comparison there are 88801 QSOs in the database now for all modes/bands in G/LD.

CW on 2/70 is 0.11% of all G/LD logged QSOs!

Always ready and willing to work any CW activation on 2m in the Lake District if I can hear them Andy.

G4OIG/P has usually been the most consistent 2m SOTA station in the UK on SSB or CW over many years, as he specialises somewhat - but Gerald concentrates on uniques so doesn’t visit the LD so much now but concentrates his attentions elsewhere.

Let’s face it, I don’t know if you’ve tried it, I have, and to mount a beam on a summit and keep it pointing in the right direction in the weather we often get, is a fair task compared to using a simple VHF vertical or HF dipole or end fed on a fishing pole. Activators that do it should be admired! I am not one of them these days preferring the aforementioned alternatives.

73 Phil G4OBK

Phil, that’s great to hear (and I’m already using your blogs to help me prepare for some G/LD summits). If my wife lets me, I hope to be in the hills as often as the weather permits.

Re simple antenna: If I’m not with family and the weather’s okay and the summit is not crowded, I’ll default to HF/CW with my linked dipole or EFHW but otherwise I’ve got to be QRV very quickly (and discretely if busy summit).

I did 155km S2S last month (both of us 5W 2m/FM and same Diamond RH770 telescopic ant) so CW surely has to be as good.

I imagine a similar analysis for G/SP, G/CE, G/WB or GW/NW, for instance, would reveal increased CW QSO counts by virtue of higher levels of VHF/UHF contest activity. And of course those would reach into LD easily enough when there’s somebody to work there. So expect a peak in available QSO partners about 6 weekends a year.

Interesting question.

As I think out loud, here are the thoughts that some to my mind…

My personal experience of activating the LD region is that there seem to be plenty of chasers on 2m FM.

Personally I’ve never tried activating 70cm but I suspect that this would be close to impossible as I don’t know many people that scan the 70cm simplex channels or monitor the calling channel. Then again, it might happen if you spotted yourself on the SOTA website and enough locals happened to see the spot.

Virtually all of my Lake District activations have been completed using 2m FM. Sometimes I take a small mast with me, but most of the time have been just a handheld with the stock rubber antenna. It’s rare that I fail to get the required 4 contacts to qualify the summit in the Lake District, especially at busy times (like weekends).

As for CW, which is specifically what your question was about:-

I make the assumption that many of the regular chasers that come up on 2m FM or SSB would also be able to run CW on 2m if they saw your spot on the SOTA website.

This assumes of course that they know CW. There are plenty of people like me that both chase & activate on FM & SSB only, and cannot do CW. Please don’t forget us when activating!!!

My presumption would therefore be that it might be viable if you self spot (and maybe alert in advance to give people some pre-warning).I have done activations (on both HF & 2m) where i haven’t spotted or alerted and somebody has heard me and put a spot on the website for me. However I wouldn’t bank on that if using 2m CW.

Unfortunately I’m not proficient enough in CW to try it. I only just started the extremely long and frustrating process of learning CW about a week ago, so have a very long way to go before I’m proficient enough to actually test this theory.

Would be very interested to know how you get on when you do move to the Lake District?

Or just ask your 2m QSO partner to QSY to 70cms if they can.

Easy, peasy, lemon squeezy.:wink:

That is true.

That said, if you are struggling for the minimum 4 contacts to qualify the summit. I don’t think that the same callsign gets counted towards the minimum 4 QSO’s needed?

I could be wrong but I’m sure I got caught out with this once before when I was struggling to get the 4th QSO on 2m FM.

I asked a station that I’d already worked on 2m FM to QSY to 70cm FM and went home chuffed with myself, thinking that I’d got the summit in the bag.

I was gutted to find that the database wouldn’t give me the points when I entered the QSO’s as it didn’t like the fact that I’d worked the same station twice (even though it was on different bands).

If you have already made the 4 contacts to qualify the summit & merely want to experiment and try a different band, then yes you are of course absolutely correct.

I wouldn’t want to frustrate non-CW chasers by doing only CW. I expect most of my future G/LD activations to be on week days [I’m retired and have the time] so I would always alert then SMS-spot CW-SSB-FM (in that order). I’ve done 99% QRP for the last 25 years and my QSOs are still around 15-17wpm. I’m also very patient and encouraging with rusty op’s getting back into CW and happy to go much slower. It would be good to increase the popularity of CW on VHF/UHF.

Another thing that’s struck me from Andy’s data is that there were only 9 activators for all 2m/70cm CW QSOs in G/LD – so very much a minority sport. I wonder how many of them took a big yagi and pole? That’s not the quick-to-QRV situation I’m looking for (If I’ve time to put up a pole, I may as well put up my HF dipole).

Perhaps polarisation is a factor here. The vertical goes with FM but if CW/SSB chasers are horizontally polarised then maybe a vertically-polarised activator will have trouble being heard.

So, I’m going to do a few SSB tests from my local SOTA summit comparing a Diamond RH-770 telescopic with a Sandpiper 2m 3-element yagi mounted horizontally on a camera tripod. By connecting them to the rear and front antenna sockets of my FT-817 I can readily switch between antennas during the same over to compare Tx and Rx signal strengths.

Very true.

Those are the conventions that we have come to accept in amateur radio.

Then again I have listened to (and contacted) stations participating in the RSGB backpacker 2m QRP contest with just a vertical on the roof (Diamond V-2000). By the nature of the contest I would imagine that most were running very low power (from memory, I think 10 watts is the limit according to the rules) with horizontal polarisation from a beam. Most of them would have likely been on a hill somewhere

Obviously working with the wrong polarisation isn’t ideal, and will never be as good as if both stations used the same polarisation.

I guess you would probably lose an S point or two due to the wrong polarisation and you’re probably not going to work any serious DX, but it can still be done.

I’ve not done any side by side comparisons as you suggest, so would be interested to hear what you find.

The older activations will have been done probably using a SOTAbeams 3 ele Yagi on 2m or the 3/6ele 2m/70 Yagi. It was simple to deploy and all the elements could be stored in the beam which was made from PVC waste pipe. Add several hundred metres of elevation and 5W + 3ele + CW on 2m is quite potent especially as keen 2m CW chasers may well have a decent station.

Andy, make a noise before you go out and you’ll find there will be quite a few stations prepared to try to chase you on 2m CW.

The cross polarisation loss is usually quoted as 20dB, which is quite a lot but my own experience suggests that it is in the right ball park. An interesting compromise is an antenna at 45 degrees, which gives a “mere” 3dB loss for both vertical and horizontal polarisation.

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I thought that someone would pipe up with an actual figure sooner or later!!!

I knew that there would be a fairly noticeable difference. I didn’t realise that it would be that much loss though.

Everyday’s a school day!!!

So, either stand with your rig on the steep side of the summit leaning out or bend your antenna over like this …

Better than getting an aching arm through holding a yagi cos you didn’t want to carry a tripod.