Anone help? Around 11AM this morning, I believe it was Marko (or even Marco) who was activating DM/RP-378. It was reported that this summit was not listed on the Sotawatch page, so I just listened for a while. Next thing I knew the post was removed but the activator insisted he was on DM/RP-378 with confusion of station’s trying to spot him. I eventually shouted him and checked that his summit was actually in the database listed as Hölz-Berg. Now I have ended up confused as no one re-posted the spot with the correction. Would someone be so kind and give me the call sign of the activator.

It was DM5ML/P.

Razvan YO9IRF.

DM/RP-378 is no longer a valid SOTA summit.

It was removed from the program on 31/Dec/2008.

When in doubt, check the database. If the summit is not in the database then it is not a valid SOTA summit. The only time summits are valid and not in the database is when new associations are coming into existence and there will have been an announcement on here saying so.

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Believe its an GMA they have same ref as the sota
when you go to sota list note there gaps in numbers this be one of them

Hence thinks its a GMA (German Mountion Aired)


any reason why this so please


Yes, it doesn’t qualify.

This would explain why its only at the website. I only checked at this place. But shouldn’t it be removed there also? Or am I missing something?

OK double checked and manually finding it with the drop down menus it is not there. But if you use “Find Summit” (which I used) it is still listed. Thanks for the quick response guys.

The “valid to” date !

To give the history in a nutshell, the original summit list offered by the nascent DM Association was accepted by the MT of the time without checking because then it could only be checked on paper maps, expensive and in any case difficult to find in this country outside of the most popular areas. Later it was found that many of the summits did not conform to the prominence rule, I believe due to a problem translating the meaning of “prominence”. There was a strong reaction in Germany to the loss of many popular hiking summits, and the GMA was formed as an independant breakaway group so that German outdoor radio enthusiasts could retain their favourite summits. While it is a pity that the GMA retention of the original designations can cause some confusion, GMA itself is regarded as an extra facility for activators and chasers rather than a competing award, as is the “Wainwright” award in this country.


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thank you for that info


Would someone be so kind and give me the call sign of the activator.

It could be argued that if you need to retrospectively ask for the callsign of the activator, then you haven’t made a valid contact. A bit like if you have to rely on a third party to relay a report to you (see the “Please do not” and “WAB Trig Award” threads).

Deleted summit references that have in the past been valid, all remain in the SOTA Database and in SOTAwatch. They generally aren’t visible in either, but there are various methods of looking them up for historical data - they are all still there. Of course, this is necessary because SOTA has never had a time-limit for entering logs of chases/activations. So theoretically, someone might register tomorrow who did an activation of Hedgehope Hill G/SB-002 in the first week of March 2002, and has now decided to log the activation. So the reference still needs to exist in the system, but marked as invalid after 6th March 2002.

The listings in the SOTA database at are the definitive summit lists and as Tom has referred to, they do include just over 4800 summits that were originally listed then later found to be non compliant or were duplicates and consequently deactivated. These are clearly marked with a “Valid To” date in the database. Some app developers take copies of our lists for their own purposes and the MT cannot be responsible for what they do with our data. So we encourage everyone to check the only definitive source i.e the SOTA database at before planning any activity as a 3rd party app may be misleading.

It would be nice for those summits to be marked more prominently, perhaps the page title would be “Hölz-Berg (no longer valid)”. Checking the date every single time is the sort of thing that is easy for computers and hard for people.

One more thing for the to-do list.


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If you search the list of summits for DM/DP is not there. The listing only shows currently valid summits. If you search specifically for this summit you get the data shown below.

It’s quite clear that the summit is not valid without my highlighting. However, the issue here is apparently a 3rd party app that shows the summit. I don’t have a copy so I can’t see if it says it’s no longer valid or not.

I know we had this problem with the SOTA mapping site a long, long time ago but Rob fixed it (within minutes) when I mentioned it to him.

If you go through the normal process of List of all Summits, then select Association and Region, deactivated summits do not show up at all. They also do not show up if you select Summits from SOTAwatch. They only show up if you use the Find Summit menu option of the database.where you specifically input a summit reference so 99% of the time nobody will see them. So “Checking the date every single time” is not a normal requirement. One thing not needed for the todo list.

I understand that invalid summits do not show up on the lists. They can show up through Google searches or other off-site references. They can show up when a chaser looks up a summit.

It would be a small, but useful, usability improvement.