While chasing, I often here other chasers calling to the activator right while the activator is transmitting, either calling CQ or sending his exchange to other chaser. It’s usually due to QSB and sometimes due to the chaser doubling with the activator not listening or not well aware of what is the activator’s transmission.
Sending DOUBLING on the air to inform the culprit chaser that he/she is doubling with the activator is too long and disturbing, so I usually don’t do it, just some few times I’ve done it.
I’d like to have a brief prosign to express DOUBLING.
We have the well known LSN = Listen, but I’d rather prefer a specific one for DOUBLING.
Does it exist? Have you ever heard of any prosign for DOUBLING? I don’t.
Let us know, please.
In case none exists, we could try to invent and implement one. What do you think?
73,
It’s very frustrating Guru but sadly I think it won’t work because:-
a) no such prosign exists already [they date from a time where professional operators used them and wouldn’t do doubling except maybe in an emergency]. Amateurs are using fewer not more prosigns in recent years so most chasers won’t recognize or adopt a new prosign, and
b) the kind of person who doubles over others probably doesn’t care and is too selfish to behave otherwise. You encounter selfish people in all other walks of life, and radio amateurs have their share of them.
Unless we find a nice one, which we advertise and promote conveniently within the SOTA community. We shouldn’t aim to implement it to the whole ham radio community, but starting its use within SOTA participants, may well end up helping to spread it widerly.
I’d like to propose a number 2 for double and a G like in the verb end ING. The prosign would be 2G = …-----. (…— + --.)
Any other ideas?
P.D.
I’ve now realised that Reflector did again the conversion of the 2 dots I typed in my original post into the 3 dots finally posted.
they are inexperienced and trying to tell them on air wont work.
they don’t care and will send their call until the activator works them and sod everyone else
they were distracted and doubled in error and wont double again for some time
All that will happen in my simplistic and cynical view is it will be like a big DXpedition with people sending 2G over the melee instead of LID/LSN/UP.
You’re more likely to reduce it by talking about it on here.
I can recall it happened to me sometimes when I don’t hear the activator and I send a “?” to check if the frequency is in use. Then I am doubling but I don’t know…
Such times, some of the chasers who are receiving well (better than me) the activator are kind and reply to me sending an “L” (that’s a shorter version of LSN).
This is okay for me, I then notice the activator is on but I can’t hear him and I just stay muted to see if signal improves and I can then work the activator.
As for me, an “L” is enough, and it’s very short, which is useful not to add a long additional QRM over the activator.
To me, the target are the group of people in your 3rd case, Andy, and those in the 1st group too.
Those who don’t care will rarely change their MO.
The inexperienced will finally learn.
Those distracted doubling in error due to not paying enough attention or due to QSB, for instance will surely welcome being informed by others ofthe doubling, so more attention will be payed before the next call. I know I have doubled sometimes in error due to QSB and being informed by others about my doubling is something I would welcome. I’d like to be able to inform other chasers I hear in the SOTA minipile-ups about their doubling because I often realize they do it in error due to QSB.
73,
OK it does happen, all part of the chase.
Is it problem? Well not to me. I accept that we all in the chase. I have to add that in my humble opinion the cw ops are a well mannered bunch. QSB yes that can change a 559 quickly to 229 no copy and doubling. It is inevitable. However is very rare for a second station to call me during the QSO.
When the pilup beats “old cloth ears” he sends a couple of dashes to try to re set the situation and plods on. Not a problem to me. Perhaps my 50Watt carrier helps maintain coms?
Regards
David
G0EVV
Just L is indeed short, but I see it may also be missinterpreted with the offensive LID and I wouldn’t like that we adopt something any might interpret as potentially offensive.
DBL seems quite comprehensive, but even if it’s far shorter than DOUBLING, I find a bit long and I’d like to come to an even shorter thing. Just a prosign like the 2G already mentionned in my previous post above or 2D (2 for double and D for the last letter in the past tense verb “doubleD” ==> 2D = …----… = 2+D). This one sounds very nice in morse. I’ve been practising a bit on sending it and it’s very cool. It’s like a questionmark (?) but with 2 more dashes.
or perhaps, just a number 2.
Any other ideas?
P.D.
You can see below a screen shot of what I wrote in my post (left side) and what it’s printed in the final post (right side). For some reason, I write 2 dots followed by 4 dashes and finally 2 dots, but the final post shows 3 dots followed by 4 dashes and finally 3 dots.
The 2 dots I typed get converted into 3 dots. This is something really weird.
Hi Guru,
Perhaps you have more issues in the EU than here in NA. Pileups are great fun and my skills managing them improve with each activation. I actually only have a couple of issues.
People tuning up on my frequency.
Loud stations calling CQ after they send “QRL?” on my frequency (perhaps they have no ears and don’t hear very well). I hope my chasers send the appropriate response to these stations when they hear this happen.
Stations that don’t understand what “AS” means (wait/standby).
Stations that keep calling even after I send a partial callsign and “?” and those stations calling don’t have those characters in their callsign.
All in all, only the first two issues mentioned above really annoy me! I try to be very consistent in the way I conduct my activation so chasers quickly figure out how and when to response. Once I have a complete callsign I start responding to that station. However, some stations delay their call and start transmitting after I’ve already started responding to the other station…or maybe they are sending their callsign multiple times. I operate QSK so I hear people sending on top of me. However, the main problem is that the original calling station may not be able to hear my response so I end up sending it again.
We have really low noise levels here on most Colorado summits so we can usually hear all the chasers fairly well. I realize that QSB is most likely responsible for many issues with stations not hearing well. In any event, it’s all good and coming up with new non-standard prosigns, etc, would probably have no effect on most of the issues mentioned. After all, we also have issues with stations not following the DX Code of Conduct ;-).
Hi Guru
As you said, the same for me happening in QSB … !
Without any sort of animosity if you copy often the same(s) op(s) doing doubling (and they are a lot) try to send a PM maybe they can change this bad thing.
This is an cluster effect, in all bands and all modes
No code can stop this and Dieu merci !
73 Éric
Doubling is usually a short term issue, which sometimes never happens at all on an activation. I do not believe creating our own unique pro-signs to be beneficial at all. We’ve all done it as Chasers but not every day! Doubling is probably mostly caused by the quality of aerial (good) and power (100w or more) used by Chasers in a noisy ether Versus poorer aerial and lower power (5-10w) and a quiet ether for Activators. So I say the best way to overcome the possibility of doubling is the activator works the stronger stations first and then the weaker stations last. Chaser pile ups can usually be cleared on 40m in 10-20 minutes and less than that on 20m and 30m whether occasional doubling is evident or not. .
Very effective and respected by the vast majority of Chasers who either stand by or sometimes help by repeating the /P on its own at a higher power level to assist in getting the S2S done! “GET S2S DONE” Haha…
