What I meant Brian was that my interest when activating a SOTA summit is in working chasers as a priority to working DX, not that I won’t work the DX. I agree that height isn’t always helpful. In the past I have worked many over-the-sea ducts to Scandinavia from Norfolk only to be quizzed by stations further inland as to whether I was making it all up! A bit like Sporadic E can be.
As for giving up or cutting short an activation, I haven’t had to, so far. I have once abandoned a final summit from my schedule… Gyrn Moelfre last January when I was thoroughly soaked having activated Pegwn Mawr and Rhialgwm in worsening weather - that was a good excuse to dry out at the BVE ranch over a brew. A couple of times I’ve used Plan B, but only to suit the situation on the ground.
Seems like your wife is like mine, but mine grumbles about the fact that she gets cold just sitting rather than me making contacts. She prefers to sit in the car and that puts pressure on me to get back there to get on the road again… these are the only times I’ve made just 4 contacts. It’s all her fault!
The “4 contacts” is quite a mystical and magical figure. It is quite amazing how often one can finish on that number! I don’t think I have ever stopped and disappeared when I have got my four because I have got my four. Activations have stopped most usually when the QSOs have dried up, but this can so often be after 4 contacts! It is easier to understand when one is struggling - nearly 4 hours to get 4 on Kit Hill G/DC-003 once - but not so when things seem busy. You have what appears to be a pile-up, but it all disappears after the 4th contact; you call a few more times, but nothing. I suspect that there might be some benevolent amateurs out there with no interest in SOTA or chasing, who will always give you a call to qualify, but who will not bother if you have your 4. Possibly.
Jimmy M3EYP, on the other hand, always used to stop after his 4th contact, basically because he didn’t like writing up his logbook, but was particular about observing BR68 to the letter. It didn’t matter of course, because I would always come back on to work everybody. Now he happily makes more than 4!
I note with interest the ongoing debate about the ‘4 QSO’ thing. We must always remember, as Tom rightly says, that there may be valid reasons for only 4 QSOs in an activation. When I was in the Lakes last month operating from Pike of Blisco I used VHF only due to weather constraints and really struggled to get 4 QSOs, I continued calling beyond the fourth but to no avail. Similarly when on Robinson and my 817 packed up I was stuck with the handie and only managed the 4 by breaking in on other QSOs. On nether of these occasions I was not on a 4 and run mission.
Before commenting on anyone about 4 QSOs please consider the circumstances under which they were made - they may not be the operators intention or fault.
Of course, the 4 contact pattern, for whatever reason, ceases to hold as soon as you start to play on other bands/modes. There is no getting away from this dark and mysterious number though, as illustrated below:
There can be no doubt that the amount of 4s is due to our often typical wkg cndx of 2m FM QRP. I doubt higher power and/or HF activators have this kind of distribution.
Tom I did say I had had my last word on this but you seem to be wanting to drag it on and on. I don’t understand your figures above, can you explain them please.
To Glyn, I made it clear from the outset what I meant, but it seems that a lot of people got hold of the wrong end of the stick. I quoted specifically four and run, meaning exactly what it says, getting four contacts and switching off deliberately.
I meant no offence to the activators who struggle hard to get four contacts but even then still carry on calling, or to the activators who are involved in another activity, such as out with a walking group or on a Raynet exercise.
73 Mike
PS. I understand your figures now you have put the dashes in Tom.
It’s an interesting discussion, particularly so for me, becuase it involves numbers, data, statistics, analysus and interpretation. I am not dragging anything on, just exploring further the “4 contact” thing. It is fascinating looking at the four contact domination in my record, despite the fact that I have never been a “4-and-run” activator.
Also interesting is the number and variety of genuine reasons behind all the 4-contact activations. These have all been covered above, and seem to cover everything. I am left wondering if there is actually such thing as the practice of “getting four contacts and switching off deliberately”. The only person I know ever did behave like that was Jimmy, but that didn’t really count either because there was always another operator to continue the activation for chasers!
Sorry about the figures - I forgot that this board strips out all multiple spaces hi!
OK Tom, maybe another exercise for your students here then.
Tom, I never state anything on this reflector unless I’m fairly certain of my facts, unfortunately in this case a lot of good, decent people got hold of the wrong end of the stick.
I was refering to at least 3 instances of an operator actually saying “I just need one more contact and then I can get off this summit”. On all 3 occasions the operator/s had been on the summit for minutes, that’s their prerogative of course, the activator is king, but in my opinion, that’s “not in the spirit” when leaving many chasers calling to an empty frequency.
Nice one Steve. I see that in fact you have the same distribution as me - ie Normal distribution with skew to the left and long tail to the right. Yours is magnified about fourfold from mine though.
From now on, whenever I go QRT on an activation, I will think of you with twenty contacts still to make hi!
In reply to GW0DSP:
“I was refering to at least 3 instances of an operator actually saying “I just need one more contact and then I can get off this summit”. On all 3 occasions the operator/s had been on the summit for minutes, that’s their prerogative of course, the activator is king, but in my opinion, that’s “not in the spirit” when leaving many chasers calling to an empty frequency.”
If its a case of getting off the summit in a hurry to go and tick off another summit then I would certainly agree it is not in the spirit, but if its a case of wanting to escape either nasty conditions, approaching bad wx, milling crowds (how on earth did hill walking become so popular whilst I was away!) dreading a very long walk out or just a case of the summit not being agrophobia-friendly (Tryfan for example) then it is at least understandable.
The vast majority of activators will go the extra mile to make sure they work everybody who wants a contact, taking time to ride the QSB for QRP stations and announcing “last call”, and whilst I’ve been stuck with QRP I have had cause to be grateful to many of them, but unfortunately you will always get a few selfish ones. Just shrug!
but unfortunately you will always get a few selfish ones.
That’s life Brian. There are TAKERS and there are GIVERS. Most of the time most of us are comfortably within the bounds of the two extremes, but some live life on the edge. Thankfully Takers are in the minority, but oh don’t they stand out like a sore thumb?
Just looked at the six occasions when I made just 4 contacts… and the XYL was either with me on the summit or waiting in the car. Seems I learned my lesson as these were early activations and now double figures is the norm.
If its a case of getting off the summit in a hurry to go and tick off another summit then I would certainly agree it is not in the spirit…
I have to disagree. Going off to do another summit would be presumably part of the plan for the day, and as we all know, it is important to stay within time windows on multi-summit expeditions.
The rules state that 4 contacts are required for the activation points. So how can it be outwith the spirit of the rules not to do more? I have occasionally heard an activator announce ‘this will have to be the last contact’, and that has been accepted and respected.
The rules state that 4 contacts are required for the activation
points. So how can it be out with the spirit of the rules not to do
more?
I really wish you would let this one drop now Tom, but you seem hell bent on keeping it going. I wonder why?
Could it be because you probably hold the record for activations ending in 4 QSOs and possibly believe it was aimed at you? I promise you Tom, it was NOT aimed at you. I know from many personal experiences that you never leave a summit until your calls are greeted with silence, even on a multi summit day.
Cast your mind back to the time when I used an ATAS on my car, but radio, SLAB etc away from the car.
Same set of rules applied then and were used, I kept within the same spirit you speak of, but you and others felt it wasn’t right and voiced your opinions, so what’s the difference this time?
I refer only to a couple of stations who worked 4 contacts on a sunny day and although many chasers were still calling they said “that’s the four thanks” then switched off. In neither case did the activator go on to another summit, nor were they involved in any other activity, nor were they in any form of danger.
I see from your post, that you condone that behaviour I most certainly don’t and although the rules were not broken, I sympathise with the many chasers left calling on an empty frequency.
I came back with another angle Mike, because Brian introduced the situation of going QRT in order to walk to the next summit. And it seems from your comment that you agree with me, and disagree with Brian on this matter, ie that a schedule to progress onto another summit is a valid reason to go QRT.
Tom, don’t you think that operating to a schedule that allows just enough time to make 4 contacts from a summit before the move to the next is an exceptionally selfish way of taking part in SOTA? My view is that while it is definitely within the rules, such a method of operation in no way can be regarded as within the spirit of SOTA operation.
I felt bad only being able to offer 40 minutes per summit on last Saturday’s schedule for the 5 GW/SW summits, so much so that I pre-warned chasers via my alerts for the day. As a norm I usually plan an hour and often spend more time than that activating a summit. The vast majority of activators operate in a similar fashion and we should be thankful that they do. If we all grabbed 4 contacts and then moved on, I don’t think that SOTA would very last long.
What I have found in 21 months of SOTA activations is the strong bond of friendship between activators and chasers and so may it long remain. Perhaps those not interested in joining the SOTA “family” ought to think long and hard whether they really should be doing something else in order to satisfy their self-congratulatory desires.
