Astronomy & Gastronomy

In reply to 2E0KPO:

The strangest phenomena I have heard on air lately is that a few activators have taken a sotabeam onto a summit, then not used it, how weird is that?, don’t get me wrong, I have always maintained that the activator is king, but to carry a beam and lay it on the floor? Nowt as queer as folk!!

73 Mike

A bit like a lie within the truth.

No, they are both truths. I haven’t collected the data; doubt I will bother, unless someone else offers to do so, but look at it this way (all following figures are notional, for purposes of illustration):

If in 2002, there were 200 activations, of which 50 were on handhelds, but if in 2007, there were 2000 activations, of which 200 were on handhelds, would you say that:

(a) the “growing trend” is proven: 50 to 200 is a fourfold increase

or

(b) the “growing trend” is disproven: handheld activations have dropped from 25% of the total to 10% of the total.

I think that (b) is what has happened. ie, that yes, without doubt there are more handheld activations. But a “growing trend” it is certainly not. Only the real data will prove one way or the other.

Tom

The strangest phenomena I have heard on air lately is that a few activators have taken a sotabeam onto a summit, then not used it

I did that on Great Whernside on Saturday. And on several LD summits in August. Such behaviour is easily explained, it isn’t “weird”.

Tom M1EYP

In reply to GW0DSP:
On Tighvein my sotabeam took the decision for me - the pole snapped in two before I had chance to peg down the dipole to act as a top guying system. Good job I carry a reel of insulating tape.
Nothing weird in this behavior Mike, I tend to carry the beam (if I take it all) ‘in case’ rather than first option which for 2m is a fold-up 'KKI slim Jim.

Roger G4OWG

In reply to M1EYP:

I went over to 2m CW, an increasing favourite of mine, and I was very
pleased to make five contacts, including George GI4SRQ. My 2m CW
sortes during activations seem to be attracting a loyal group that is
steadily increasing in number, so I intend making more of this.

Great to work you again on 2m CW Tom - glad to hear you intend to do some more.
Later on I worked Richard 'CWI on Roan Fell on 70cms CW - he was a good signal 549 and I was using my FT-100 which is very deaf on 70cms.
Checking his log I was the only one on CW ( he had a 70cms SSB contact as well.
Even more amazing if you look at chaser table and put in all associations 70cms and CW I seem to be numero uno in the world (actually the only one on the list). I’m sure there are others but they must have either not entered their chases on the database or have chosen to upload another band/mode instead.

Roger G4OWG

In reply to 2E0KPO:

What only an hour and a bit on Cadair Berwyn? I managed 4 hours and was quizzed by Tom as to why I was still there. Just stunning views.

Dashing around to achieve 4, 5 or 6 summits in a day is acceptable. You’ve proved even with this number of summits it doesn’t have to be 4 QSOs and quit. Paul and I did 5 summits on Saturday and spent at least 40 mins on each.

In reply to G1INK:

2 and dash is permitted because you don’t score any points and therefore cannot be criticised.

In reply to GW0DSP:

Beams up mountains… well it can be fine and sunny in the valley at the parking spot and when you poke your head over the last few feet of rock suddenly to be faced with a stiff wind and driving sleet, then erecting a beam is probably the last thing you really want to do… you just wished you’d left it in the car… unless as in my case it is your only option and you just have to get on with it.

In reply to 2E0HJD:

I would have thought that there are four main centres of chasers - the Mafias around Birmingham, Cheltenham and Connah’s Quay, plus your group with BLH, DJJ etc. Burton on Trent is an up and coming centre of activity. I can understand why few people beam at Kent or even Northampton… though to be on the receiving end of this can be rather annoying. BTW, you were definitely missed on my first couple of summits on Saturday - not sure whether you were QRV.

73, Gerald

In reply to G4OWG:

70cms and CW I seem to be numero uno in the world (actually the only one on the list).

I will be taking 70cms out more and more Roger, so will look out for you on the band. CW always a delight of course and I worked Richard using the mode on Tarn Crag from Mynydd Uchaf SW-031… cheated though as I was using 25w of SSB! Hi.

73, Gerald

In reply to G4OIG:
Hi Gerald,
I would still be there if I had a tent (GW/NW-012). I agree, Stunning views… I would say its one of my top 5 so far…

In reply to M1EYP:

“There are lies, damn lies and statistics”

I did that on Great Whernside on Saturday. And on several LD summits
in August. Such behaviour is easily explained, it isn’t
“weird”.

It would appear that you took it that I referred to your good self Tom? Did I not work yourself and Jimmy on every summit on your big LD tour and your southern tour, on your MG summit and again this weekend on your LD tour? I don’t know why or if you think it was aimed at you.

To Roger G4OWG

On Tighvein my sotabeam took the decision for me - the pole snapped
in two before I had chance to peg down the dipole to act as a top
guying system. Good job I carry a reel of insulating tape.
Nothing weird in this behavior Mike, I tend to carry the beam (if I
take it all) ‘in case’ rather than first option which for 2m is a
fold-up 'KKI slim Jim.

You are always a great signal Roger and even with a smashed pole you still managed to get a signal to the waiting chasers, not only that, as you say your first choice is a fold up KKI slim Jim, not a HH with RD.

To Gerald G4OIG

In reply to GW0DSP:

Beams up mountains… well it can be fine and sunny in the valley at
the parking spot and when you poke your head over the last few feet of
rock suddenly to be faced with a stiff wind and driving sleet, then
erecting a beam is probably the last thing you really want to do…
you just wished you’d left it in the car… unless as in my case it
is your only option and you just have to get on with it.

I can’t argue with that sentiment Gerald. Having said that you managed to hear and work me on my most difficult path, N.Wales/S.Wales, for which I am eternally grateful because 4 of the 5 were uniques, BUT, would we have made it if you were on a HH and RD? No Way.

I am not complaining, far from it, I merely voiced an opinion on what I have heard on air. I am one of the fortunate chasers who is in a very radio friendly QTH geographically, hence not much escapes my log book, hi. As always, my opinion is that the activator is king and can please his/herself, end of story.
One thing is for certain, whatever the equipment used, I am always thankful and appreciative of the person who has driven miles, then walked miles in all sorts of weather to put an activation on for us back home in our central heated shacks, long may they continue to get our support.

73 Mike

In reply to GW0DSP:

“There are lies, damn lies and statistics”

That might be a well-known saying, but it is not so. Statistics are undisputable fact. They way individuals may choose to interpret them could be otherwise.

I don’t know why or if you think it was aimed at you.

I didn’t. I was just pointing out that I am an activator who sometimes does exactly the thing you are calling “weird”. I made no secret of the fact that the beam was carried as back-up on some of the activations you mentioned, with the strategy being to get as many summits per day done as quickly as possible with handhelds. On some (eg LD-033), the beam was needed, on others it wasn’t. As you rightly say, you worked me on all of them. Your support was greatly appreciated, and I succeeded in using the minimum equipment I could get away with!

Sometimes, the priority is Jimmy M3EYP catching up on as many uniques to me as possible while we are in a certain area, hence the beam as back-up where required, but not used if not necessary. A strategy for efficiency, as opposed to “weird”. Other times, we bed down on a summit for a few hours and “play radio”, the most recent example being NP-015 on Sunday, which was in contrast to the previous evening’s 4-each-and-run on NP-008.

I know it wasn’t particularly aimed at me Mike, but nonetheless, it was a prompt into a discussion in which I felt I had something to add.

73, Tom M1EYP

In reply to M1EYP:

In reply to GW0DSP:

I made no secret of the fact that the beam was carried as back-up on
some of the activations you mentioned, with the strategy being to get
as many summits per day done as quickly as possible with handhelds.
Your support was greatly appreciated, and I succeeded in using the minimum
equipment I could get away with!

A strategy for efficiency, as opposed to “weird”. Other times, we bed down
on a summit for a few hours and “play radio”, the most recent example being > NP-015 on Sunday, which was in contrast to the previous evening’s 4-each-and-> run on NP-008.

The penny has just dropped Tom, it all makes sense now, thanks for explaining. In my naivity, it never even crossed my mind that any activator adopted the attitude of looking solely after number one, grab four to qualify the summit and take the points then dash, and if there were not four contacts available, then and only then erect a beam so the four can be achieved, then switch off and dash for your next hit.

I presumed that we all, as activators, did our best to give ALL chasers at least a shot at bagging the summit. Silly me, I see I still have a lot to learn, but I will carry on trying to do 2m, 60m, 40m and 30m when wx allows and give some thought to the many chasers who have been waiting for me after seeing my alert. I couldn’t switch off after the fourth contact and leg it, just to grab more points, or even when there are no points in it for me.

I know it wasn’t particularly aimed at me Mike, but nonetheless, it
was a prompt into a discussion in which I felt I had something to add.

I’m pleased that you know that Tom. You always have something to add to any discussion.

73 Mike GW0DSP

73, Tom M1EYP

There are lies, damned lies, and statistics.

I think it’s a big mistake to judge all activations by your own experiences or standards. For example, most of the NW summits are screened from large centres of population and often completely surrounded by higher mountains.

As my XYL Eleri MW3NYR will testify, it can take a couple of hours of calling CQ till you’re hoarse to get four contacts on 2m from most of the NW summits. She’s always persevered and made it though.

Just because someone has only made four contacts from a summit doesn’t mean they haven’t worked damn hard to get up the hill, and worked damn hard to get those four contacts!

It may be easy to get four contacts from your local summits, but that doesn’t means it’s easy from everywhere.

I think by using phrases like ‘smash and grab’ and ‘four and run’, you’re in danger of belittling other people’s achievements.

73 - Ian GW8OGI

In reply to GW8OGI:

Please, don’t take my words out of context Ian. I know how Eleri has struggled but kept going on some of the NW summits, lot’s of other ops have done likewise on other summits. These genuine people are not the ones I refer to Ian, Eleri in particular would work every last chaser calling, even in bad wx.

I was refering ONLY to those stations who log four contacts then QRT and head for the next summit even though there are chasers still screaming for the summit. It does happen believe me. These are the only ones I refer to as 4 and dash or smash and grab (grab the points that is).

It’s different if it is for a challenge such as the 24 in 24 will be, but it can be so frustrating when a 59 signal works 4 contacts then ignores chasers, switches of and heads for the next summit.

73 Mike

In reply to 2E0HJD:

I dont do early saturday mornings anymore Gerald !! no alarms anymore,
just wake when i wake.

Reverting to being a teenager Mick? I’m normally awake by 0700, even at the weekends. Comes from regular early morning MS skeds with I3LGP in the 1980’s / 90’s. Even after a hard night on the pop, it’s generally 0730, maybe 0800 at the latest - complete with that dead head feeling of course if I’ve been on the wine. Real ale is much safer, but that wakes me at 0430 asking to be let out!

73, Gerald

You are right Ian. I used the 4-and-run phrase only in respect of my own activation, but it was inaccurate; because Jimmy and myself always activate together, it’s never less than 8 contacts, and in this particular example I did finish the pile-up (as I always do) after the 4 contacts each.

I will openly admit that my participation in SOTA is primarily for my own enjoyment and that of my children. Our objectives are to walk up the hills, and get the activator points. Giving away lots of chaser points, or operating on several bands and modes are never primary objectives, but more often than not, those things happen anyway.

I have done over 500 SOTA activations on 160 Unique summits over 5 years. A good number of them have been quick handheld activations on multi-summit days to get Jimmy’s Uniques up (or on The Cloud). A good number of them have been 3 to 4 hour stays on one summit making many contacts on several bands and modes. If you stripped away all my selfish/low-effort (radio-wise) activations from my record, you would still be left with more activations than most people have done! And I sleep easy, because I tend to still work regular chasers on all my ‘selfish’ ones anyway!

Cheers, Tom

In reply to GW0DSP:

“I can’t argue with that sentiment Gerald. Having said that you managed to hear and work me on my most difficult path, N.Wales/S.Wales, for which I am eternally grateful because 4 of the 5 were uniques, BUT, would we have made it if you were on a HH and RD? No Way”

Precisely why I had the BNOS 150 watt linear with me. I decided to “test the water” on the first summit and it worked out okay with 20 watts, so the big gun stayed in the car all day. There is no way I would set out to use a HH/RD unless the situation on the summit dictated - e.g. Sugar Loaf where it was very crowded and I just couldn’t erect a mast.

What amuses me is that people often talk to me about good tropo conditions. While I understand that they are appreciative that my elevated location and reasonable equipment might enable me to make DX contacts, my prime interest is always working as many chasers as I can.

73, Gerald

P.S. The 70cms linear seems to have become attached to the backpack!

Some stats from my Activator log:

108 HH/RD-only activations, leaving 399 activations with “proper” portable rig, antenna etc

All 160 uniques have had at least one (and usually more) activations with full portable set-up.

Never done a “4-and-run”. I might have ended on 4 contacts a few times, but am never QRT until the last caller has been worked. I reserve the right to be in poor condx, but it hasn’t happened yet (famous last words!).

I’m thinking of doing a lot more on 70cm (all mode) as well Gerald, as well as 2m CW, my current favourite. That’s not to say that the ubiquitous 40m CW and 2m FM will be ignored - how could they be???!

73, Tom

In reply to M1EYP:

Tom you certainly don’t need to justify your activations mate, the activator is king, end of story. I repeat, nothing was aimed at you personally.

I have no more to say on this thread and am considering heading to Hope, wx looks iffy at the moment though, so maybe HH & RD only :wink:

73 Mike

In reply to G4OIG:
“What amuses me is that people often talk to me about good tropo conditions. While I understand that they are appreciative that my elevated location and reasonable equipment might enable me to make DX contacts, my prime interest is always working as many chasers as I can.”

I find that even some experienced (one might even say “hardened”) VHF operators do not realise that if you are ABOVE the duct, your signal may not penetrate it, and whilst those in the lowlands are experiencing fabulous DX, those up high may hear very little. I found this over forty years ago when a 70 cm contest station was doing so badly that we packed up and descended only to find the band alive with DX in the valley so that a good score was then amassed from what would normally be regarded as a duff site. For the rest, though my activations are far fewer than yours, I would not pack up as long as I was being called unless I had serious safety concerns (such as hearing thunder!) and this has annoyed my wife a few times - she loves the hills and still struggles up despite painful knees, but gets fed up reading Women’s Weekly whilst waiting for me to stop “rattling”!

73

Brian G8ADD

In reply to M1EYP:

Sorry Tom ! I realise that my quip about statistics was ambiguous.

What I meant by it was that just because an activator’s log for a summit shows they have only had four contacts, it didn’t always mean they’d not put in a lot of effort to get them.

That is what I wanted to point out in my post.

I was NOT referring to your excellent statistics on most wanted summits which I personally found very interesting, in fact the NW list is pinned on the shack wall for reference.

73 Ian.