In reply to G3CWI:
Hi Richard,
Still receiving you at 22:25z, a little stronger than at 18:15z,
but so is the noise level. Also heard you on the old Marconi TRF.
Best signals heard here were around 17:30z when you were comparable
with G3KEV who was also on. Noise levels are atrocious here today.
What ERP have you been using?
Kind regards
Dave G0ELJ
In reply to G0ELJ:
ERP is probably around 100mW. Thanks for the reports. It looks like a viable prospect for SOTA.
73
Richard
G3CWI
In reply to G3CWI:
First station up from 502.7 kHz I can hear is something very weak on 560kHz and then first strong station is on 660kHz. Going down the first signal I find is a beacon on 340.5kHz and then strong broadcast stations starting at 252kHz. It is the same on the Kenwood TS-140S as on the IC-706MkII. Maybe there is some attenuation on both rigs at those frequencies. I will try the Yaesu 857D later and see what I can hear on that.
Steve
In reply to G3CWI:
Not long after I posted yesterday the band suddenly got very noisy, the same sort of noise which plagues me on all the HF spectrum, I guess a neighbour switched on his plasma TV! This will be a limitation weekends.
I was using my FT857D and found out later that I had forgotten that the attenuator was in, so you were probably stronger than I thought!
I will have to work harder on my CW and join the fun!
73
Brian G8ADD
Steve, you are well into the broadcast band there. 560 - Spectrum Radio from London on 558 is often audible in the NW. 660 - you have your local service of BBC Radio Wales (formerly BBC Radio Clwyd on that txer) on 657.
252 used to be Atlantic 252 from Dublin, but is now RTE Radio 1. Any chance of your beacon being on during the day on Friday Richard? I have an idea for my Radio Enrichment lesson on Friday if so.
Keep going with the CW Brian. In fact just get on the air with it, it makes all the difference. I first txed at 3 wpm, and did my debut CW activation with 10wpm - unashamedly! Plus SOTA is easy - the vocabulary required is tiny - not much more than what Richard’s beacon was sending.
Tom M1EYP
I have checked my 5MHz NOV & Andy is correct in that there is no mention in the NOV itself about cross-band contacts with stations that do not hold a 5MHz NOV. The relevant passage is in the “Operating procedures” document that the NOV holder is invited to comply with on a voluntary basis.
Apologies to anybody who may have been misled by my earlier post.
The passage is:
“Cross-band operation involving any one of the 5 MHz spot frequencies is only permitted between those stations holding current 5 MHz NOV’s. Cross-band working with stations outside of the UK is not considered to be within the spirit of the experiment.”
So, given the wording on the NOV, it appears that cross-band working is permitted, but you are invited to refrain from it.
Most confusing!
Back to Richards 500KHz experiment, I listened last night but the noise level here was too high to pick out a readable signal using my 80M loop. I tried a couple of different antennas, & the one that worked best was my 10M vertical, although the signals were very weak, so was the noise & I could just pick out the odd letter of Richards callsign as it climbed in & out of the noise.
A dedicated small moveable receiving loop would probably be a better proposition at my QTH, I’ll have to see what I can knock together.
73,
Mark G0VOF
“Cross-band operation involving any one of the 5 MHz spot
frequencies is only permitted between those stations holding current 5
MHz NOV’s. Cross-band working with stations outside of the UK is not
considered to be within the spirit of the experiment.”
Hi Mark,
Just a thought, - stations who do not have an NOV for 5MHz would strictly
under the terms of the W/T Act be acting illegally by listening on this band
as it is neither an amateur nor a broadcast band, so OfCom could hardly encourage it
73
Dave.
In reply to G0ELJ:
Dave that’s just plain stupid and wrong if you don’t mind me being blunt. You can listen to a plethora of services intended for general reception under the WT Act. The Act names the services, not the frequencies. It says Amateurs. It doesn’t say Amateurs on acknowledged bands, just Amateurs. In which case Amateurs transmitting on 5MHz (with a NoV) are just amateurs so you can listen to them whether you have a NoV or not.
The problem that arises here is some people cannot distinguish between a legal requirement and advice from 3rd parties. The advice from 3rd parties may be well intentioned but does not carry any legal obligation.
The purpose of 5MHz NoVs was to carry out UK wide experiments into inter-UK operation. Whether you buy that or not doesn’t matter, that’s the premise sold to OFCOM and the MoD. Given that inter-UK is the purpose, cross-band DX contacts are extremely difficult to justify as a valid part of the experiment. On the other hand inter-UK cross-band contacts are certainly very easy to justify as part of the experiment.
If you can’t justify the contact as part of the ongoing experiment then the advice of the RSGB (not OFCOM) to avoid such contacts makes good sense. It doesn’t make them illegal, but simply hard to justify.
It should be noted that this advice appears to have been dropped by the the RSGB from its later FAQs etc.
Andy
MM0FMF
In reply to MM0FMF:
Hi Andy,
I don’t mind you being blunt!! I take your point about listening
to Amateurs rather than to amateur bands, and apologise for my
erroneous comment. I must confess to not having read any part of the
relevant acts for many years.
I would be interested in the other services you mention however.
I take it these would be Airband Volmet, Navtex, and Marine Band
forecasts and the like.
Kind regards
Dave G0ELJ
In reply to G0ELJ:
I don’t mind you being blunt!
LOL! Things you are allowed to listen to are “licensed broadcasting stations, amateur and citizens’ band radio transmissions and weather and navigation transmissions”.
There’s all sorts of nonsense in the acts about what you can’t listen too. Of course that’s totally impractical to enforce. What is easier to police is divulging the contents of messages. If you’re not meant to listen to them then if you don’t tell anyone, nobody knows. If you tell someone about something you shouldn’t have been listening too then it’s easier to be done for it. What also needs taking into account is that the horrific and draconian RIPA 2000 may come into play and that’s something you don’t want to get involved with.
The problem is that there are many UK hosted websites dealing with scanning and monitoring and there are magazines too. There’s a huge amount of business to do with an illegal activity that is being allowed to continue and thrive. Which all suggests that trying to enforce any of these rules whilst turning a blind eye to a large “monitoring business” would be difficult. It’s just typical of the mixed up laws in the UK.
A classic example is the “squidgy gate” tapes. There’s someone who claims to have recorded old analogue cellphone transmissions involving the late Princess Diana and made them available to the press. If that isn’t a first class example of doing what the laws say is wrong I don’t know what is. Yet the “perp” was never prosecuted. Just another example of how ludicrous the laws are and more evidence to use in any defence against a prosecution.
However, all very OT when the subject is Richard’s 500kHz signal which I still haven’t heard or seen. I need a better antenna!
Andy
MM0FMF
The M0GIA “Baker’s Dozen” antenna (tuned up on topband) is what you need Andy. I always hear Richard’s beacon at 599 when it is transmitting.
Regarding “scanner crime”, I well recall the story of a stunt by Cheshire police a few years ago. Officers discussed details of a UFO landing on the analogue police channel (451.850MHz NFM?) and gave coordinates and detailed directions to the obscure and remote landing site.
Apparently, loads turned up at the site, only to be nicked on arrival!
It is the story I recall, rather than the actual event, and it does have a touch of “urban legend” about it. Can anyone confirm or deny the tale?
My students did very well on the topic of propagation this afternoon, and are warming up nicely for their exam next month - exciting times.
Tom M1EYP
In reply to M1EYP:
The M0GIA “Baker’s Dozen” antenna (tuned up on topband) is
what you need Andy. I always hear Richard’s beacon at 599 when it is
transmitting.
That’s probably because you can physically touch Richard’s QTH and have a directly wired link with that antenna from where you live! 
Yes, the 40m dipole just doesn’t cut the mustard at 400+km. Funny I can hear MSF from Anthorn at 59+60 on 60kHz. I guess they have a bit more “poundage” in their PA and a bigger “twig” than Richard.
I need to have a look to see if Sean has his design’s written up online.
Andy
MM0FMF
That’s probably because you can physically touch Richard’s QTH…
Er yeah, there is that… But I’m defintely receiving it long path…
LOL! Things you are allowed to listen to are “licensed
broadcasting stations, amateur and citizens’ band radio transmissions
and weather and navigation transmissions”.
Hi Andy
Trust me to forget the beacons, one of my favourite activities!
From the BeaconWorld list you linked to I have received 82 of the
132 listed, over a period of time, all using an indoor tuned loop
(+many more overseas beacons). So I can recommend one of these, not
only for their ability to receive, but also to null out interference.
I will have to look out for that other 50 though!!
As you say, there’s an awful lot said about what you can and can’t
listen too, but the best advice of all is that should you
‘inadvertantly’ hear something you shouldn’t, - keep it to yourself.
Kind regards
Dave G0ELJ
In reply to MM0FMF:
The “BAKERS DOZEN” is 67ft of wire configured to fit in whatever way you can, mine goes up over the roof starting about 12 ft away from the house.
There is a number of reasons why i chose 67ft, basically its a slightly over sized 1/4 wave on 80m. Due to restricted space this is all can put up so to make up the other half of the aerial good old mother earth is used! I pinned down a length of wire mesh with bike spokes bent like tent pegs, this was done on the lawn and now has completely disappeared.
Tom’s is configured as an inverted “L” with a wire counterpoise about 50ft long pinned to the ground. Some ATU’s will tune this aerial on 160m, if you can not get it to tune you can always add on more wire or in my case a loading coil as well.
Tom’s version also sports a 1/4 wave length at the feed point for 20m making it a half fan, i found no silly high impedance’s on any bands and for this reason a balun was not used only a 1:1 choke balun at the feed point.
Works on 6m too … no RF in the shack either, experiment and fun! Limited Space HF Antenna For 160, 80 and 40 Meters by 2E0BAX
Sean M0GIA
In reply to G3CWI:
Hi Richard and all,
Tonight (15th may) at 20.20 UTC I received, with Q5 signal, G3KEV in QSO with you on 502.7. Wonder what power he is using?
Did not hear your signal; maybe up on a hill wil bring Your signal into Holland?
Receiver IC706 and ant. about 30 meter wire…
Good luck on this nice experiment and see You around; 73, Age - pa0xaw.