True, there was a migration to the DC bands, but for several years after the abolition activity on 2m SSB remained reduced but worthwhile, as a DX, contest and SOTA mode. More recently it dropped off the cliff when urban noise levels started to climb into the VHF range. Right now I have S4 noise on 2m SSB, back in the day I was working stations fully R5 with no discernable movement of the S metre, now they may be there but drowned in noise. Efforts to bring back activity on 2m SSB (which would be a good thing IMHO) will be hindered by the noise problem. Fortunately if we get any Es openings the signals will be astrong, possibly S9, so noise wouldn’t be a problem, but I doubt we will see any now before next May.
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Hi Tom,
I grow weary going back and forth with you like this, so this will be my final reply to you on this topic. As in previous debates on this reflector you 1) ignore or don’t counter some specific points I raise and 2) you persist in misrepresenting what I said.
e.g. “Because I don’t know why you you want to disregard thousands of 2m SSB SOTA activator QSOs because I thought it would be a good idea to activate on that band/mode at times when there was lots of activity across the UK and Europe!”
I already told you twice, I DON’T think that, in fact, I said it was fine. Please stop making this strawman argument.
If you re-read my post you’ll see I spoke of nostalgia of the 1990’s 2m scene [pre SOTA].
In this comparison you haven’t controlled for confounding factors: the SOTA programme was only about a year old in 2003 with a small ‘membership’ whereas it must be much larger [in the UK] in 2023. A more valid comparison would be to contrast the percentage of 2003 vs 2023 2m QSOs that were SSB or CW.
On a more positive note:
I should be pleased if you did that and, depending on the date / my diary commitments I would try to participate like I did last time you arranged such an event.
I’ll leave you to have the final word.
regards, Andy
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I think that’s pretty much what I said - “after a time”.
There’s a negative feedback loop (with a time constant of a few years): many Class B licensees migrate to HF bands for richer pastures … 2m SSB activity drops a bit … 2m SSB ops find fewer contacts … more 2m-to-HF migration … and so on.
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Great, let me know when is convenient.
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That BTW, was the first mention anyone made of “20 years ago” - it was you Andy, and that was the reason I made those 2003 v 2023 comparisons.
This is a valid point. I’ve even acknowledged myself that the actual activity has slightly dropped despite the number of 2m SSB UK participants more than doubling. There is also a valid reason why I chose not to “control for confounding factors” - and that’s explained well by Brian @G8ADD in his latest post. Nonetheless, the activity is definitely there, and there is potential for much more if any of us wants to make it happen.
BTW, back in the noughties, my interest in Tuesday evening VHF contesting was sparked by Paul @G4MD 's proposal/concept of “SOTA Fun Evenings”. These tended to be split between 2m FM and 2m SSB and were popular. The tradition lives on, and in the summer months there can be 4 or 5 SOTA activations combining with a UK Activity Contest.
The main reason, however, that I didn’t compare the proportions of 2m activity that was SSB vs FM between 2003 and 2023, was that wouldn’t have answered your charge of “Chris and I and probably others care that 2m SSB/CW has largely become a contest only thing (which is great for contesters, no problem) rather than a general SOTA thing as it was 20 years ago.” in a mathematically valid manner. As you can see in the 2023 figures, only a tiny proportion of the 49 participating 2m SSB UK activators are doing so in conjunction with a contest. In fact, the proportion would have been greater in 2003, ironically enough!
I keep threatening to relaunch the “2m Multimode Saturdays” thing - but still trying to identify a free Saturday to do so. Looking at my upcoming work schedule, I think it will have to be 2m Multimode Fridays - does that work for you (or anyone else)?
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Why don’t you guys just go out and activate on 2 m?
Ahoi
Pom
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And where would the fun be in that? 
You know we need to have a discussion on here first before doing anything 
In all seriousness, I think the point being made was that if one was to solely concentrate on SSB/CW VHF/UHF activation, there could be a risk of not qualifying the summit. Personally, if I am wanting to concentrate on 2m SSB I would be taking the 9element beam and associated masts and hardware. There wouldn’t be a lot of space/weight left for backup antennas.
It’s a bit of a circular argument really. There are no activators on 2M ssb/cw since there are no chasers on 2m ssb/cw since there are no activators in 2M ssb/cw.
Discussions like this, do help to raise the profile to the point that a set of people will decide - ‘lets do this on this day’ thus making it worthwhile for activators and chasers to make the effort. There will then be more activations for a short while till interest wanes. After a short while again, a discussion topic will pop up similar to this one and round we go again.
Personally, I would attempt to join in with any kind of activity session, but like others that are restricted in how often they can get out I couldn’t guarantee participation. Hence, I probably would look at contest days as the best bet for success.
Ian
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I don’t want to post a list of inconvenient dates. Being retired I can generally do most weekdays during the day. Put another way, I usually can’t do SOTA in the evenings or at weekends.
But I don’t want to make this a Tom & Andy thing but something many could participate in - that would be more fun. I suggest Tom that you put out a few dates and see if we can drum up others from the reflector.
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It goes further. There is no activity (of any sort) on 2m SSB because there is nobody on 2m SSB to work. There is nobody on 2m SSB to work because there is no activity to attract them. There is little activity around here even on 2m FM, the repeaters are the only activity for much of the day, and all they do is pop out a callsign on CW occasionally. You do get the occasional ragchew but most channels are dead. The urge to operate for the sake of operating has receded, and few operators even take advantage of major tropo events, the urge to work DX has almost gone. In the past there were people listening and waiting all the time, the calling channel was monitored and a lift was pounced on, a Scottish-type aurora was announced by the beacon going tone A and immediately there was activity, even on phone. When the sporadic E reached two metres there were plenty of people waiting eagerly to take advantage of it, now its just a few die-hard enthusiasts. I listened for CW activity during the Perseid meteor shower, there was some high speed CW (far too fast for me!) but it was a mere shadow of what it had been a couple of decades ago.
Its easy to describe the symptoms but hard to prescribe a cure. I’m not even sure that a cure is needed. Time has moved on and there is no longer any enthusiasm for the things that once got us worked up, and the occasional burst of induced activity won’t change that. Possibly an official challenge might change things, at least for the duration of the challenge, but I think that the change would be at best superficial. You can’t cross the same river twice.
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I’d be interested in a 2m SSB/CW activity session. It would make me finish off the Moxon I started on ages ago (pre-Covid) but never got to work. I bought a nanoVNA partly for this project and have used it to test many homebrew filters and amplifiers but never the Moxon.
It would need to be a Thursday or Friday morning as that is when I can usually get out. Friday would probably be limited to G/NP-028 but on Thursday I could drive to a better summit.
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It is just happened I’ve started my SOTA activations on VHF FM and I am still carrying on that way. Although 2m FM works great for me both terrestrial and satellite the only reason I am not trying VHF CW/SSB is that I don’t have all mode radio As soon I get my hands on one I would no doubt will be active on 144.300 and .050 (although likely just speaking with myself )
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I might well take my FT817 and aluminium 4 ele Yagi out for an SSB / CW activity session, but not on a regular basis.
If someone cleverer than me produces a design for an inexpensive light weight 2m radio in an Altoids tin or simillar, then I think there will be a resurgance of interest…
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you might try looking for a Mizuho MX-2F, this dinky little rig only gives about 1 watt of output but you can get a long way with that! Good luck in finding one, though, they are sought after!
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Shall we get a Friday morning thing going then? I won’t be able to do every week, and not 100% sure about this week yet myself - not that that should preclude anyone else’s participation.
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I won’t be out this Friday as:
- I won’t have time to sort out an antenna.
- I’ll be brewing beer.
But I could probably be out next Friday.
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Friday mornings suit me. It would be good if it became a regular thing albeit not everyone could make it every week / month.
Contrary to what I said before about driving down to a G/SP summit I’ll go fairly local to G/LD or G/NP summits. Looking at the distances I worked from G/LD-050 during the 40 minute warm-up session of the June-2021 2m Backpackers Contest with my modest FT817 5W into 3-el Yagi if propagation condx are similar, I should be able to work the Midlands and Wales again if not southern England.
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I am not located in Europe…but I think the answer is pretty simple why FM dominates and not SSB/CW on 2M here in Arizona…but I can’t speak for all of the USA…
Two Meter 3 band HT…weight 11 ounces…
antenna…zip…zero…nada…part of the weight…
set up time…2 seconds…
QSO’s per activation…MANY
Time to qualify a summit (make 4 contacts)…less than 5 minutes
Two Meter FT817…weight 4.2 pounds…
Yagi, mast, coax…weight 2 pounds (likely this number is low)
set up time…5 minutes…(again this number may be low)
QSO’s per activation…very few on non contest days
Time to qualify a summit (make four contacts)…a lot more than 5 minutes
Number of people on summits using 2M FM…lots
Number of people on summits using SSB…few to none
Anyhow…I’m not against ssb/cw…those are just the facts…FM is lighter, faster, easier, and you get quick results.
Pete
WA7JTM
W7A…Arizona USA
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I think also the hardware for chasers to be able to work 2m SSB isn’t as commonplace as 2m FM. the numbers of tranceivers that do 2m SSB are far more limiting. Also as others have said once people could go on HF and weren’t restricted to 2m then SSB dropped to a minor side show. IMO anyway
I did try 2m SSB once, again as i realised once i got my FT817 i finally had a rig that could do it. I tried it on Cross Fell and i think i managed 2 SSB contacts (dumfries and Darlington) and used 2m FM to activate the summit. I will try again at some point as DX on 2m always feels like an achievement. But working a VK s2s on 5w with my FT-817 during a Sota activity day is still my highlight QSO to date.
Anthony
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My first two 2m SSB activations from Walton Hill in 2006 and 2007 netted me 16 and 17 contacts but after that contacts reduced to at best 4/5 and I moved to FM to keep numbers up. This was using an FT-817, 5w to a dipole about 4m agl. The activation in 2007 included a contact into PA0, I mention this just to show how popular SSB was back then, and how effective a simple set-up was. That same 5w of SSB into the home antenna, a 5el yagi at about 10m, got me contacts with 21 DXCC entities. Such was the power of SSB before activity evaporated!
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