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2000 watts necessary?

In reply to M0LEP:

Tim 5Z4DV probably comes nearest to your description. He told
me about the fun he had activating Mt. Kenya (on VHF) a great many
years ago…

Thanks for that, Rick. I’ll see if I can dig his call out.

Kenya requires a full log to be kept, including any callsigns called,
whether worked or not, and that kind of log inevitably gets a fair few
"not called" entries too. I was skimming through counting
the “CQ” lines, and I noticed a line with a familiar
callsign:

21/12/2011 12.48 21.263 SSB 100W 2E0YYY – -- QSB

…so I obviously just heard you, but not well enough to put down a
signal report and call back (though, given I’ve noted a time, it’s
possible I did answer at least once).

LOL… Me on the 15m Band, shirley not! I really must get rid of the IMAX-2000 and get a beam up there, Rick.

Yup, worked EA4BUX at 12.42 on 21.263 that day and for some reason QSY’d to 21.327 about 13.00…

Best 73s
Mike 2E0YYY

In reply to G0TRB:

In reply to OE7HPI:
You can never complain about the Italians when UK stations give them a
run for there money giving calls several times over each other , QRP
is called a M6 10w into 2kw amp. That flatten full legal power
stations in the UK there are bad operators in all DXCC but UK must be
in the top five worldwide .

Roger, if you actually know of stations abusing their power limits then you should report it through the proper channels. Vague generalised accusations on this reflector do not do any good and it is not really what this reflector is for.

I know of at least one local to me M3 that has been accused of abusing his power limit, whereas I know for certain that he possesses neither rig or amplifier capable of illegal power, just a good antenna set-up. There are two things that can result in a strong signal, high power and well-applied knowledge.

73

Brian G8ADD

In reply to G8ADD:
…There are two things that can result in a strong signal, high power and well-applied knowledge. …

May I add one more to your list, Brian?
Propagation and skip distance at a particular band and/or time of day will also play a major factor in how strong a particular station will appear in someone’s receiver… !

73 de Ken - GM0AXY

In reply to GM0AXY:

Very true, Ken!

73

Brian G8ADD

In reply to G8ADD:
If you had been around for the UK stations calling EI/ON4TA/P and again DL1DLF/P from 1420 for over an hour calling over each other you would be proud of how much encouragement it gives to sota activators to get further involved. Still it gives more reasons to go 2 mtrs FM or CW and the people who asked others to calm down cant say anything as they are banned by SOTA . You had to be there and hear all UK stations then you would understand and yet when it is mentioned on the reflector people hide in a shell in case anything they say gets them a SOTA ban, people dont like the truth when they know they may be guilty of the QRM I wonder how long before some activators start saying NO UK . SOTA has become very popular worldwide but then again look at how many UK actvators have given up,and some that do only 20 mtrs and above so all is clear now they have got it right so when I used to ask for VHF to help the UK chasers I now think in a different way.
You also mentioned things said on the reflector do no good for SOTA and its not what the reflector is for I bet you wish you could control some of the bad operators like you do the reflectors comments. So we can all rest assured that the closing of ranks to prevent information escaping can be left in your capable hands as moderator.

As you say report these people,some have been reported at Newark and hopefully they will get a visit when time allows from those in power.

In reply to G0TRB:
Roger,

I quite agree that there was a serious lack of courtesy and consideration during the pile up calling EI/ON4TA/P.

Thanks for many SOTA contacts. Hope to speak again soon.

73,
Rod

In reply to G0TRB:

Roger, don’t rant at me. I was referring to your accusations of the use of illegal high power, not to the abysmal quality of the operating. Furthermore, if I was trying to “prevent information escaping” I have the power to cut you off from the reflector and expunge your posts. I didn’t do that, I hate excluding people, I bend over backwards to avoid it and only do it when left with no alternative.

No, I didn’t hear those particular manifestations, I was up a mountain myself at the time, but as a chaser I have suffered as badly as anyone. Tail enders, tail ending the tail enders, tail ending the tail enders tail ending the tail enders, an endless cycle of mindless shouting by people so in love with their own voices that they don’t even realise that they are talking over the activator. What is worse, the insufferable boors that call over the chaser whilst he is trying to complete with the activator! We’ve all heard them, we’ve all suffered, and do you know something? It is implicit in human nature and the characteristics of SOTA! Chasing a DX-pedition, you know that they are going to be there for days or weeks, but a SOTA operation gives a window of opportunity measured in minutes, not hours, days or weeks. The ruthlessly competitive chasers will bust a gut and walk over anybody in their way to get those points during the minutes that they are available. And what can we do about it? You tell me! Naming and shaming won’t work, they don’t read this reflector and they don’t care for anything except their position in the table, everybody can hear their shenanigins but they don’t care because they are shameless. If they have morse keys, the key rattles ME, ME, ME! against the table. The only answer for a chaser is to find and work the activator before he gets spotted and the dogs are let loose! The only answer for the activator is to make say half a dozen contacts then QSY to shake off the dogs for a while.

73

Brian G8ADD

As a small comfort I think not one SOTA activator I know is leaving the band till all calls answered.

The disadvantage is, if I’m not sure I can bring an 1h activation to the end, for myself I give 40 a wide berth.

In reply to DL1DLF:
Thanks for staying to the end (15:05Z) today. I’m very often at work and can sometimes pop out for awhile when a spot appears on SOTAwatch. I often take a gamble and wait for the early noise to die down then sneak out to the car park (use the radio in the car when at work) but miss out having left it to late. But not today just got out in time. Thanks again.
Damian M0BKV

In reply to G8ADD:

The only answer for a chaser is to find and work the activator
before he gets spotted and the dogs are let loose! The only answer for
the activator is to make say half a dozen contacts then QSY to shake
off the dogs for a while.

IMHO, this is a two way street, Brian. As an activator, I feel I have a certain degree of responsibility to the chasers, once I enter my alert onto the SOTA site

In my case, the chances of a chaser call going unanswered is pretty negligible. Once I’m ensconced on a summit, unless there’s a sudden downpour of sulphuric acid, I’m usually there for the duration. There have been exceptions, although this has usually been down to the WX.

Should an activators decide s/he wants to activate 4 or 5 high value summits in a day (oh how I wish I had the stamina), surely unruly pile-ups are an inevitability, especially on the lower HF bands where the chasers will be competing with calls from all over Europe. Most certainly, on any activation, activators rule the roost, however, chasers who may have planned their day around certain summits which they may be desperate to get into their log, can and will become frustrated if their calls go unanswered. OK, I’m not saying excuses bad behaviour.

Having said all this, my limited experience of activating has been extremely positive and I’m convinced most of this comes down to how I handle the pile-ups. After the spot appears, I’ll often hear three or four calls simultaneously. I quickly scribble them into the log, take the first call and acknowledge the other chasers I’ve heard them. When I worked the last VHF lift from Gun and Shining Tor on FM, I answered a couple of hundred calls using this system with no hassle.

I’ve worked some big SOTA pile-ups and my experience has been that bad behaviour is the exception, rather than the rule.

73 Mike
2E0YYY

In reply to 2E0YYY:

40m SSB is the real zoo Mike. It’s where I’ve seen most bad manners and poor operating. I find it such a pain in the bum I avoid 40m SSB wherever possible. That’s a shame as it penalises the good operators but seriously it’s not worth going there and getting my blood pressure raised sky high. Maybe it’s better if the skip is short so there are less chasers in the skip zone.

In reply to G0TRB/G8ADD:

Roger & Brian, the pair of you stand out as operators who call at the right time not at the wrong time. Neither of you tail end the tail enders. I know both of you have local noise problems and I’m happy always happy to work with you when conditions are marginal so you can get your QSO. That’s easier on 60m than 40m! Just get someone who has better copy to QSP any requests etc.

In reply to DL1DLF:

I’ve had to go QRT when there are still chasers calling a few times. It really hurts to leave chasers without a QSO. But it has been because of sudden bad WX or because I have a long walk out and the daylight is fading. Now I try to ensure I don’t start operating on a band if I think I will have to go QRT early.

Andy
MM0FMF

In reply to G8ADD:

“SOTA operation gives a window of opportunity measured in minutes”

Not always true Brian, I (amongst many others) usually stay to the end of the pileup amd more often than not will change band & start again as evidenced during my recent GM trip, making 1251 contacts on 16 summits. The only fly in the ointment on that trip was my activation of GM/SS-088 Creag Mhor. Probably the hardest & steepest hill of the lot, climbed with a painful swollen knee. Decent wx on the summit, I expected a nice relaxed operation. How wrong I was, a combination of terrible operating by chasers combined with pain from my knee caused me to pull the plug after only 12 contacts. This is the first time Ive ever done this & I felt sorry for the decent operators afterwards. The last straw was when I asked the UK to stand by to let me work an EA1 station, not once but SIX times I was met with a wall of UK stations screaming their calls, some even giving me a report & thinking theyd worked me. Anybody who knows my M.O. would realise I will stay until no more callers, or the battery runs out. It was a great pity as I`d lugged 2 x 7AH SLABs up this steep hill expecting a 100 plus log. I may concentrate on the higher bands in future or even spend more time on VHF/UHF. Rant over & blood pressure dropping.

In reply to G1INK:

I wholly agree with your method of activating Steve. Indeed I am often late off a summit after making sure that everyone that so wishes has had an opportunity to work me or at least attempt to work me. This is the Activator trying his or her utmost to accommodate as many Chasers as possible.

However, to my mind the answer to the issue under consideration is simple… Activators take control! Once you have got your 4 qualifying contacts, it is then up to you to determine whether you are willing to accept the behaviour of those calling. If you take exception, change frequency or change band - better still make an announcement and stop for a while and have a break. Those that genuinely want to work you will wait patiently for the opportunity.

Gerald G4OIG

In reply to G4OIG:

Hi Gerald, hope you enjoyed your GM uniques. How wet did your feet get on Grange Fell? I got my feet absolutely soaking, and at the end of my holiday had no clean / dry socks left. I drove home the remaining 170 odd miles in bare feet!
I`m sure my fuel economy / mpg increased. (75 mpg for the first tankfull).

In reply to G4OIG:
“If you take exception, change frequency or change band - better still make an announcement and stop for a while and have a break. Those that genuinely want to work you will wait patiently for the opportunity.”

I agree with you Gerald, although I do not operate HF for SOTA, on 2m SSB I reguarly will speak with Stewart G0LGS and Graham G4FUJ in Cheltenham. Both have 2m SSB and 23cm FM, so normally I will work them and ask them to hang around until the 2m contacts have dried up. A QSY is made and we normally have alot of luck with that. However I have in the past worked Stewart/Graham and have immediately QSYed to 23cm FM. I return to 2m SSB and people are still waiting for me!! As you say if they want to work you they will patiently wait.

I really think that from a VHF standpoint these Smash and Grabs are the most irritating aspect! Nothing annoys me more than being the chaser on the end of this. You have made all that effort to get up the hill, why only use a crap antenna and get 4 QSOs. Of course I recognise the need for safety and the activator is King here, but on a warm summers day their is no excuse.

Last bit of Soapbox here, why take an 817 with you and use 2m FM and non directional antennas! Please give SSB a chance, I have directional antennas at home as do many other chasers that can send you shed loads of RF and can recieve RF in a selected direction!! It really is the way forward!! SSb is more energy effcient, travles further and even weaker signals are normally quite readable!

Rant over, plans for the future - A beam vertically polarised on 2m FM!! Then my blood wont boil!

73 all from a grumpy young man

Matt G8XYJ

In reply to G1INK:

Anybody who knows my M.O.
would realise I will stay until no more callers, or the battery runs
out. It was a great pity as I`d lugged 2 x 7AH SLABs up this steep
hill expecting a 100 plus log. I may concentrate on the higher bands
in future or even spend more time on VHF/UHF. Rant over & blood
pressure dropping.

Well Steve, like yourself, I’ve spent a lot of time on the HF bands above 20m. Andy described the 40m band as a zoo, however, it’s a silent order monastery compared to the 20m band. Above 20m is where I’m most comfortable, although as you’re well aware this normally rules out a massive chunk of UK, it doesn’t necessarily rule it all out and I’ve certainly had a few surprises on these bands.

As for VHF, I’m just not a fan of beams, simply because I’m too bone idle to keep turning them. Therefore, I plan to stick with the collinear for the time being. Working from 2 point summits it has produced some great results and I’d love to try the X-300 out on a 10 pointer, however, it would be quite a slog with the poles etc.

Anyone think of a 10 pointer that has a car park at the summit in the UK :wink:

73
Mike 2E0YYY

In reply to 2E0YYY:
Ease the strain and take the train… Snowdon =0)

In reply to MW0BBU:
The snag is that (at 2011 prices) the single ascent fare is £18. Return is £25 and, I think, requires return by the same train as ascent so a pretty speedy activation.

73,
Rod

In reply to 2E0YYY:

As for VHF, I’m just not a fan of beams, simply because I’m too bone
idle to keep turning them. Therefore, I plan to stick with the
collinear for the time being. Working from 2 point summits it has
produced some great results and I’d love to try the X-300 out on a 10
pointer, however, it would be quite a slog with the poles etc.

I’m not a fan, either, Mike. I have lost many potential chases on 2m SSB because the activator has turned his beam away for a stronger station and somehow never seems to get around to turning it back! Usually this is a problem with the bigger beams, 2/3 el beams leave you with a fighting chance except at extreme range!

73

Brian G8ADD

In reply to M0JLA:

In reply to MW0BBU:
The snag is that (at 2011 prices) the single ascent fare is £18.
Return is £25 and, I think, requires return by the same train as
ascent so a pretty speedy activation.

I doubt they’d be over the moon with me taking a 15 Kilo rucksack, collinear and poles into the carriage either, Rod :wink:

Then there’s the problem of the Rangers, not to mention, by the time I was QRV, the train would be well on its way out of the station :frowning:

73 Mike
2E0YYY